From krenon at y7mail.com  Wed Jul  1 18:29:11 2009
From: krenon at y7mail.com (Edwin Scribner)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 01:29:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TolHarndor] Bulwer-Lytton Fiction Contest 2009 Results
Message-ID: <816662.69564.qm@web110211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

The Bulwer-Lytton contests are, I think, run by the University of San Jos? (California). The following was posted to the (Brisbane based) Vision Writers' mail list. Ya gotta laugh!

Bulwer-Lytton Fiction Contest 2009 Results 

Fantasy Fiction Runner-Up

Towards the dragon's lair the fellowship marched -- a noble human prince, a fair elf, a surly dwarf, and a disheveled copyright attorney who was frantically trying to find a way to differentiate this story from "Lord of the Rings."

- Andrew Manoske, Foster City, CA





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From dragon at roots-boots.net  Fri Jul  3 17:58:53 2009
From: dragon at roots-boots.net (Marayong)
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 17:58:53 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] favour
In-Reply-To: <4A4B12D5.6010307@roots-boots.net>
References: <4A46E55D.6080904@roots-boots.net>	
	<ecc18000906281552v60306833ob29a395c4d887826@mail.gmail.com>	
	<4A48B44F.7080700@roots-boots.net>	
	<ecc18000906301544i20c98ff8l67b8b36133dcec83@mail.gmail.com>	
	<4A4B12D5.6010307@roots-boots.net>
Message-ID: <4A4DBA3D.2050202@roots-boots.net>

Jeff sent this to me by mistake ...


Dear all.
Bloody freezing here in Yarra.
So I've done enough writing after a ski club night here.
Google Lake  Mulwala.....if ya want to view the Lake emptied ...quite a 
sight.....I'm usd to since childhoos but a bleak beauty )...sorry 
Michael......cost me $6 ...v flash it is too!
Know VInnies?
love Jeff
On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 5:40 PM, Marayong <dragon at roots-boots.net 
<mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net>> wrote:

    G'day Jeff,

    Thanks!

    There should be librarians there to help you find the info.


    cheers,
    David

    Jeff Lynch wrote:

        Dear David,
        I will essay your effort next week.
        Tomorrow I motor to Yarrawonga and will prob return on Sunday.
        So Monday (or onwards) would be the best I can do in getting
        across to North Melb....my youngest daughter lives there so
        maybe it will work out as a double bunger.
        Jeff

        On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 10:32 PM, Marayong
        <dragon at roots-boots.net <mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net>
        <mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net <mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net>>>
        wrote:

           G'day Jeff,

           Thanks ....

           The item in question is in the "Assisted British Immigration
           1839-1871" records. Book 11, page 453.

           In particular, the details on Hannah Carrol 18yo, who arrived
        Port
           Melbourne, 8/1857 on the "Star of the South".

           There should be a librarian there who can help find the
        information
           and then make a photocopy of it. It will likely be on a
        microfilm.

           It's at the Reading Room, Victorian Public Records Office, 99
        Shiel
           Street, Nth Melb.

           Hope that's enuf information??

           cheers,
           David




           Jeff Lynch wrote:

               Gday David,
               Nat I will assist if I can.
               What do we look for?
               jeff

               On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Marayong
               <dragon at roots-boots.net <mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net>
        <mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net <mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net>>
               <mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net
        <mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net> <mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net
        <mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net>>>>
               wrote:

                  G'day Jeff,

                  I t'was wondering if you were able to do a favour for
        me? Well
                  actually my wife's family. I'm doing their family
        history and
               need
                  to get hold of a document in the Public Records Office
        at 99
               Shiel
                  Street, North Melbourne. Unlike their NSW version, the Vic
               PRO does
                  not provide a mail copy service for their records,
        just has them
                  kept in the reading room. Fine if you are a
        Melbournian and
               can pop
                  in for a quick peek and run it thru' a photocopier ..
        not so
               good if
                  you live interstate. If you can't help, let us know
        and we'll try
                  and get a transcription agent to do the deed.

                  cheers,
                  David
                  --    Line dancing, Genealogy, Travel, Photography, Local
               history & more!
                      http://roots-boots.net <http://roots-boots.net/>
        <http://roots-boots.net/>
               <http://roots-boots.net/>      
         mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net <mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net>
               <mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net
        <mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net>> <mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net
        <mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net>

               <mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net
        <mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net>>>

                  The greatest tragedy that could overcome a country
        would be
               for it
                   to fight a successful war in defence of liberty and
        to lose its
                           own liberty in the process" - Robert Menzies



           --    Line dancing, Genealogy, Travel, Photography, Local
        history & more!
               http://roots-boots.net <http://roots-boots.net/>
        <http://roots-boots.net/>        mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net
        <mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net> <mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net
        <mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net>>
           The greatest tragedy that could overcome a country would be
        for it
            to fight a successful war in defence of liberty and to lose its
                    own liberty in the process" - Robert Menzies



    -- 
    Line dancing, Genealogy, Travel, Photography, Local history & more!
        http://roots-boots.net <http://roots-boots.net/>    
    mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net <mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net>
    The greatest tragedy that could overcome a country would be for it
     to fight a successful war in defence of liberty and to lose its
             own liberty in the process" - Robert Menzies





From mlk at activ8.net.au  Sat Jul  4 19:18:30 2009
From: mlk at activ8.net.au (Michael Kennedy)
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 19:18:30 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] favour
In-Reply-To: <4A4DBA3D.2050202@roots-boots.net>
Message-ID: <261F25CE41AA4FB8B6DDBA4731D10073@Michael>

Cold here too, but not complaining. 

Funny thing about Vinnies. Today, as I was walking into Wollongong I noticed
three large red 'SALE' signs plastered on the windows of Vinnies. Vinnies -
a sale? Uh? I didn't go in as I was on a mission but it did occupy my
thoughts for a while.




> -----Original Message-----
> From: list-bounces at tolharndor.org [mailto:list-
> bounces at tolharndor.org] On Behalf Of Marayong
> Sent: Friday, 3 July 2009 5:59 PM
> To: list at tolharndor.org
> Subject: Re: [TolHarndor] favour
> 
> Jeff sent this to me by mistake ...
> 
> 
> Dear all.
> Bloody freezing here in Yarra.
> So I've done enough writing after a ski club night here.
> Google Lake  Mulwala.....if ya want to view the Lake
> emptied ...quite a
> sight.....I'm usd to since childhoos but a bleak
> beauty )...sorry
> Michael......cost me $6 ...v flash it is too!
> Know VInnies?
> love Jeff
> On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 5:40 PM, Marayong <dragon at roots-
> boots.net
> <mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net>> wrote:
> 
>     G'day Jeff,
> 
>     Thanks!
> 
>     There should be librarians there to help you find the info.
> 
> 
>     cheers,
>     David
> 
>     Jeff Lynch wrote:
> 
>         Dear David,
>         I will essay your effort next week.
>         Tomorrow I motor to Yarrawonga and will prob return on
> Sunday.
>         So Monday (or onwards) would be the best I can do in
> getting
>         across to North Melb....my youngest daughter lives
> there so
>         maybe it will work out as a double bunger.
>         Jeff
> 
>         On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 10:32 PM, Marayong
>         <dragon at roots-boots.net <mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net>
>         <mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net <mailto:dragon at roots-
> boots.net>>>
>         wrote:
> 
>            G'day Jeff,
> 
>            Thanks ....
> 
>            The item in question is in the "Assisted British
> Immigration
>            1839-1871" records. Book 11, page 453.
> 
>            In particular, the details on Hannah Carrol 18yo,
> who arrived
>         Port
>            Melbourne, 8/1857 on the "Star of the South".
> 
>            There should be a librarian there who can help find
> the
>         information
>            and then make a photocopy of it. It will likely be
> on a
>         microfilm.
> 
>            It's at the Reading Room, Victorian Public Records
> Office, 99
>         Shiel
>            Street, Nth Melb.
> 
>            Hope that's enuf information??
> 
>            cheers,
>            David
> 
> 
> 
> 
>            Jeff Lynch wrote:
> 
>                Gday David,
>                Nat I will assist if I can.
>                What do we look for?
>                jeff
> 
>                On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Marayong
>                <dragon at roots-boots.net <mailto:dragon at roots-
> boots.net>
>         <mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net <mailto:dragon at roots-
> boots.net>>
>                <mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net
>         <mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net> <mailto:dragon at roots-
> boots.net
>         <mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net>>>>
>                wrote:
> 
>                   G'day Jeff,
> 
>                   I t'was wondering if you were able to do a
> favour for
>         me? Well
>                   actually my wife's family. I'm doing their
> family
>         history and
>                need
>                   to get hold of a document in the Public
> Records Office
>         at 99
>                Shiel
>                   Street, North Melbourne. Unlike their NSW
> version, the Vic
>                PRO does
>                   not provide a mail copy service for their
> records,
>         just has them
>                   kept in the reading room. Fine if you are a
>         Melbournian and
>                can pop
>                   in for a quick peek and run it thru' a
> photocopier ..
>         not so
>                good if
>                   you live interstate. If you can't help, let
> us know
>         and we'll try
>                   and get a transcription agent to do the deed.
> 
>                   cheers,
>                   David
>                   --    Line dancing, Genealogy, Travel,
> Photography, Local
>                history & more!
>                       http://roots-boots.net <http://roots-
> boots.net/>
>         <http://roots-boots.net/>
>                <http://roots-boots.net/>
>          mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net <mailto:dragon at roots-
> boots.net>
>                <mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net
>         <mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net>> <mailto:dragon at roots-
> boots.net
>         <mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net>
> 
>                <mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net
>         <mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net>>>
> 
>                   The greatest tragedy that could overcome a
> country
>         would be
>                for it
>                    to fight a successful war in defence of
> liberty and
>         to lose its
>                            own liberty in the process" - Robert
> Menzies
> 
> 
> 
>            --    Line dancing, Genealogy, Travel, Photography,
> Local
>         history & more!
>                http://roots-boots.net <http://roots-boots.net/>
>         <http://roots-boots.net/>        mailto:dragon at roots-
> boots.net
>         <mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net> <mailto:dragon at roots-
> boots.net
>         <mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net>>
>            The greatest tragedy that could overcome a country
> would be
>         for it
>             to fight a successful war in defence of liberty and
> to lose its
>                     own liberty in the process" - Robert
> Menzies
> 
> 
> 
>     --
>     Line dancing, Genealogy, Travel, Photography, Local history
> & more!
>         http://roots-boots.net <http://roots-boots.net/>
>     mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net <mailto:dragon at roots-
> boots.net>
>     The greatest tragedy that could overcome a country would be
> for it
>      to fight a successful war in defence of liberty and to
> lose its
>              own liberty in the process" - Robert Menzies
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> List mailing list
> List at tolharndor.org
> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org





From krenon at y7mail.com  Sat Jul  4 19:50:15 2009
From: krenon at y7mail.com (Edwin Scribner)
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 02:50:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TolHarndor] favour
Message-ID: <924716.86472.qm@web110203.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

It's been rather cool here. The BOM weather station at Mount Boyce (just up the road from us) got up to a big 5.1 early this afternoon but it's been going down since then. Still, it's been dry and not much wind, after a few windy days.

However more fairy dust for the fairy king and Lithgow but none for us :(? 

I thought that Vinnies had sales from time to time. Given the economic climate it wouldn't surprise me to see them flogging stuff off a little more cheaply than usual.

--- On Sat, 4/7/09, Michael Kennedy <mlk at activ8.net.au> wrote:


Cold here too, but not complaining. 

Funny thing about Vinnies. Today, as I was walking into Wollongong I noticed
three large red 'SALE' signs plastered on the windows of Vinnies. Vinnies -
a sale? Uh? I didn't go in as I was on a mission but it did occupy my
thoughts for a while.





      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail

From mlk at activ8.net.au  Sun Jul  5 21:27:35 2009
From: mlk at activ8.net.au (Michael Kennedy)
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 21:27:35 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] Fairy King gets fairy dust
In-Reply-To: <686558.6365.qm@web110210.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <F2B9DB20B76840768CA99252AA7AF3C8@Michael>

Hi All,

I'm really favouring something along the lines of 'Tolkien and journeys'. 

It can be interpreted in many ways. It could be the physical or spiritual
journey of a character, Tolkien himself, or even the reader. Perhaps a
subtitle would serve as a useful signpost, although I would obviously expand
on this in a Call for Papers. If the general consensus is with me on this
then it's really just the wording that needs tweaking. 

Tolkien and Journeys

Tolkien - The Journey  

Tolkien and Middle-earth - Journeys within and without.

Any suggestions welcome.

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: list-bounces at tolharndor.org [mailto:list-
> bounces at tolharndor.org] On Behalf Of Edwin Scribner
> Sent: Saturday, 20 June 2009 7:23 PM
> To: Tol Harndor - Australian Tolkien Society
> Subject: Re: [TolHarndor] Fairy King gets fairy dust
> 
> 4 degrees? We had a day recently where that was the max. Fairy
> King land sometimes doesn't get over 0 all day in the winter,
> but Brenda Lyon grows fine daffodils at her farm (Falkirk)
> there. As for the South Island, yes I can imagine it as
> Caradhras.
> 
> A title or theme for the seminar? Have we got anything that's
> especially relevant to current events? I can't think of
> anything offhand, but I'd be thinking about Aussiecon and
> Melbourne, plus such things as world economy, swine flu, Iran
> and North Korea making bombs ... or should I ignore those
> things? I would, however. like to make some connection with
> Aussiecon. You may find that people already registered to go to
> it are interested in Tolkien (other than Elise, about whom we
> know). I'll happily pass on anything to the Aussiecon committee.
> 
> Michael, I've so far only browsed Sigurd and Gudrun. It's by no
> means an easy read - not the sort of thing you can take to bed
> at night. I've been pondering the general question of "fairies"
> including elves dwarves etc and I've again carefully read
> Tolkien's "On Fairy-stories", coming up with a few more
> thoughts. I'm sure that there are aspects of Tolkien study that
> deserve more attention and they include some of the material
> that Peter covered in his BA Hons thesis (which is well worth
> another look if you haven't read it in a while).
> 
> Oh, btw, the 2010 World Fantasy Convention is to be held in
> Columbus, Ohio, USA in late October 2010 and I'm thinking about
> going to it, for a variety of reasons.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Herendil
> 
> --- On Sat, 20/6/09, Michael Kennedy <mlk at activ8.net.au> wrote:
> 
> I'm pleased the cheque arrived dear Jeff. If they need to
> replace the ball
> for any of the weekend games you could offer it as a fair
> substitute. Not
> because the ball may be worth about $130, but because they both
> should be
> able to bounce...ha ha.
> 
> 4 degrees! What is that my friends. I have been in beautiful
> Christchurch
> the last few days and my car thermometer recorded? 0 degrees C.
> I took a
> photo with my phone but I'm still working out how to transfer
> them to the PC
> so I can show you. As well as that I have some shots of the
> spellbinding
> southern alps. The mountains and valleys were like storm-waves,
> the darkest
> green, and frozen in time. With a dusting of snow-white ice you
> can imagine
> how beautiful it must have looked. We flew quite low over them
> and it must
> rank as one of the most scenic ascents of all.
> 
> The next step for the Seminar is to conjure, cement and certify
> a title and
> theme. I have a few working ideas but nothing that stokes my
> core. Maybe we
> should just run with 'Talkin about Tolkien' or 'Force of
> Hobbit' (get it?).
> Or maybe something to do with the history (in any sense) of
> Middle-earth,
> and its relevance to today. Or maybe 'The Humanity of Tolkien's
> world' or
> 'Tolkien's Vision'. I don't mind the latter as it's quite open
> to various
> interpretations. Anyway, tell me what you're thinking while I
> dust off my
> Tolkien books. I still haven't read the latest release but I do
> now have a
> copy. Have you read it Ted?
> 
> Michael
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>       Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
> Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail
> _______________________________________________
> List mailing list
> List at tolharndor.org
> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org





From krenon at y7mail.com  Mon Jul  6 10:51:45 2009
From: krenon at y7mail.com (krenon at y7mail.com)
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 17:51:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TolHarndor] Fairy King gets fairy dust
Message-ID: <967678.46041.qm@web110208.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hi Michael.

I'm going to suggest that you swap the word "journey" for one much more grand and profound. I'd like to suggest that you change "journey" for "odyssey".

The Merriam-Webster online dictionary gives the meaning of "odyssey" as:

1 :? a long wandering or voyage usually marked by many changes of fortune??? 

2 :? an intellectual or spiritual wandering or quest

I'm sure that you can see several odysseys in Tolkien's writing, and usually anyone's life is an odyssey of sorts. "Odyssey" does not necessarily mean "quest" but the heroic quest of fantasy fiction is usually long and certainly is marked by changes of fortune; also there is usually, if not always, a spiritual component. 

The definitive odyssey has moments of
 setback, moments of despair, moments where the
 whole future hangs by a thread, then of course moments of triumph and joy - the so-called (by Tolkien) "consolation". But are they all happy endings? One could hardly say that the tale of Turin had a happy ending. Are they all a "completion"? Arguably Tolkien's life work was incomplete and, although a great part of it is now in print, I have felt that he would have disapproved of the way his son edited and published at least some of it.

But I think that we could make a strong case that the above and others relating to the modest Oxford don who wrote the "greatest book of the 20th century" as odysseys and well worthy of examination, analysis and discussion. So I suggest that you name the seminar "Tolkien and his Odysseys".

Oh btw, Oberon got some more snow last week, while Blackheath missed out again. Could you please change the thread title? I don't need our deprivation and their surfeit rubbed in! I'll leave it up to you and/or that peripatetic Melburnian (come to think of it, you're in the peripatetic league yourself :).

--- On Sun, 5/7/09, Michael Kennedy <mlk at activ8.net.au>
 wrote:

Hi All,

I'm really favouring something along the lines of 'Tolkien and journeys'. 

It can be interpreted in many ways. It could be the physical or spiritual
journey of a character, Tolkien himself, or even the reader. Perhaps a
subtitle would serve as a useful signpost, although I would obviously expand
on this in a Call for Papers. If the general consensus is with me on this
then it's really just the wording that needs tweaking. 

Tolkien and Journeys

Tolkien - The Journey? 

Tolkien and Middle-earth - Journeys within and without.

Any suggestions welcome.

Michael





      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail

From jeffreyblynch at gmail.com  Tue Jul  7 09:20:34 2009
From: jeffreyblynch at gmail.com (Jeff Lynch)
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 09:20:34 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] Fairy King gets fairy dust
In-Reply-To: <F2B9DB20B76840768CA99252AA7AF3C8@Michael>
References: <686558.6365.qm@web110210.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<F2B9DB20B76840768CA99252AA7AF3C8@Michael>
Message-ID: <ecc18000907061620s763cd032xa7324f28af078ed0@mail.gmail.com>

Huzzah for 'Tolkien and journeys'
And may the road...........
Weather report...
I'm doing a favour for David this day (I hope) checking some detail (Public
Records) for the man...a private thing tho' I do post it....never trust a
poet!gin between the O and the L?
A wonder this weather report is too.
Sooooo.Ashes manana....WOW.........NO Bing!
And at Wales for a first ever.....Glamorgan CC no less at
Cardiff........rising sound on the IFF your voice must go up to the end of
Cardifffff (higher).
So enough rubbish..... start of serious things...sighs aloud.....I will be
70 in less than eighteen months.....and this poses a problem...I have told
several people that will grow up when I am seventy............What did I
just tell you?
Never trust.......
love jeff.Huzzah again.

On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 9:27 PM, Michael Kennedy <mlk at activ8.net.au> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I'm really favouring something along the lines of 'Tolkien and journeys'.
>
> It can be interpreted in many ways. It could be the physical or spiritual
> journey of a character, Tolkien himself, or even the reader. Perhaps a
> subtitle would serve as a useful signpost, although I would obviously
> expand
> on this in a Call for Papers. If the general consensus is with me on this
> then it's really just the wording that needs tweaking.
>
> Tolkien and Journeys
>
> Tolkien - The Journey
>
> Tolkien and Middle-earth - Journeys within and without.
>
> Any suggestions welcome.
>
> Michael
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: list-bounces at tolharndor.org [mailto:list-
> > bounces at tolharndor.org] On Behalf Of Edwin Scribner
> > Sent: Saturday, 20 June 2009 7:23 PM
> > To: Tol Harndor - Australian Tolkien Society
> > Subject: Re: [TolHarndor] Fairy King gets fairy dust
> >
>  > 4 degrees? We had a day recently where that was the max. Fairy
> > King land sometimes doesn't get over 0 all day in the winter,
> > but Brenda Lyon grows fine daffodils at her farm (Falkirk)
> > there. As for the South Island, yes I can imagine it as
> > Caradhras.
> >
> > A title or theme for the seminar? Have we got anything that's
> > especially relevant to current events? I can't think of
> > anything offhand, but I'd be thinking about Aussiecon and
> > Melbourne, plus such things as world economy, swine flu, Iran
> > and North Korea making bombs ... or should I ignore those
> > things? I would, however. like to make some connection with
> > Aussiecon. You may find that people already registered to go to
> > it are interested in Tolkien (other than Elise, about whom we
> > know). I'll happily pass on anything to the Aussiecon committee.
> >
> > Michael, I've so far only browsed Sigurd and Gudrun. It's by no
> > means an easy read - not the sort of thing you can take to bed
> > at night. I've been pondering the general question of "fairies"
> > including elves dwarves etc and I've again carefully read
> > Tolkien's "On Fairy-stories", coming up with a few more
> > thoughts. I'm sure that there are aspects of Tolkien study that
> > deserve more attention and they include some of the material
> > that Peter covered in his BA Hons thesis (which is well worth
> > another look if you haven't read it in a while).
> >
> > Oh, btw, the 2010 World Fantasy Convention is to be held in
> > Columbus, Ohio, USA in late October 2010 and I'm thinking about
> > going to it, for a variety of reasons.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Herendil
> >
> > --- On Sat, 20/6/09, Michael Kennedy <mlk at activ8.net.au> wrote:
> >
> > I'm pleased the cheque arrived dear Jeff. If they need to
> > replace the ball
> > for any of the weekend games you could offer it as a fair
> > substitute. Not
> > because the ball may be worth about $130, but because they both
> > should be
> > able to bounce...ha ha.
> >
> > 4 degrees! What is that my friends. I have been in beautiful
> > Christchurch
> > the last few days and my car thermometer recorded  0 degrees C.
> > I took a
> > photo with my phone but I'm still working out how to transfer
> > them to the PC
> > so I can show you. As well as that I have some shots of the
> > spellbinding
> > southern alps. The mountains and valleys were like storm-waves,
> > the darkest
> > green, and frozen in time. With a dusting of snow-white ice you
> > can imagine
> > how beautiful it must have looked. We flew quite low over them
> > and it must
> > rank as one of the most scenic ascents of all.
> >
> > The next step for the Seminar is to conjure, cement and certify
> > a title and
> > theme. I have a few working ideas but nothing that stokes my
> > core. Maybe we
> > should just run with 'Talkin about Tolkien' or 'Force of
> > Hobbit' (get it?).
> > Or maybe something to do with the history (in any sense) of
> > Middle-earth,
> > and its relevance to today. Or maybe 'The Humanity of Tolkien's
> > world' or
> > 'Tolkien's Vision'. I don't mind the latter as it's quite open
> > to various
> > interpretations. Anyway, tell me what you're thinking while I
> > dust off my
> > Tolkien books. I still haven't read the latest release but I do
> > now have a
> > copy. Have you read it Ted?
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >       Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
> > Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail
> > _______________________________________________
> > List mailing list
> > List at tolharndor.org
> > http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List mailing list
> List at tolharndor.org
> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
>

From dryad0404 at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Jul  7 12:56:43 2009
From: dryad0404 at yahoo.co.uk (dryad)
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 02:56:43 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TolHarndor] Fairy King gets fairy dust
Message-ID: <824837.18647.qm@web24605.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

I like the grander word odyssey. It brings such an epic feel to the thing. Since I was planning on presenting about monsters and such, I was more keen on previous titles, alas. 
?
However, I lecture 'on fairy-stories' , and of course the hero's journey, and I have yet another presentation I could do.
?
How are these for titles...wording of the conference?
?
Tolkien: Odysseys and Fairy-stories
Tolkien: Odysseys and the Perilous Realm
Faerie and Tolkien's Odysseys: Navigating Perilous Realms
?
just a few ideas...
Elise

--- On Sun, 5/7/09, krenon at y7mail.com <krenon at y7mail.com> wrote:


From: krenon at y7mail.com <krenon at y7mail.com>
Subject: Re: [TolHarndor] Fairy King gets fairy dust
To: "Tol Harndor - Australian Tolkien Society" <list at tolharndor.org>
Date: Sunday, 5 July, 2009, 8:51 PM


Hi Michael.

I'm going to suggest that you swap the word "journey" for one much more grand and profound. I'd like to suggest that you change "journey" for "odyssey".

The Merriam-Webster online dictionary gives the meaning of "odyssey" as:

1 :? a long wandering or voyage usually marked by many changes of fortune??? 

2 :? an intellectual or spiritual wandering or quest

I'm sure that you can see several odysseys in Tolkien's writing, and usually anyone's life is an odyssey of sorts. "Odyssey" does not necessarily mean "quest" but the heroic quest of fantasy fiction is usually long and certainly is marked by changes of fortune; also there is usually, if not always, a spiritual component. 

The definitive odyssey has moments of
setback, moments of despair, moments where the
whole future hangs by a thread, then of course moments of triumph and joy - the so-called (by Tolkien) "consolation". But are they all happy endings? One could hardly say that the tale of Turin had a happy ending. Are they all a "completion"? Arguably Tolkien's life work was incomplete and, although a great part of it is now in print, I have felt that he would have disapproved of the way his son edited and published at least some of it.

But I think that we could make a strong case that the above and others relating to the modest Oxford don who wrote the "greatest book of the 20th century" as odysseys and well worthy of examination, analysis and discussion. So I suggest that you name the seminar "Tolkien and his Odysseys".

Oh btw, Oberon got some more snow last week, while Blackheath missed out again. Could you please change the thread title? I don't need our deprivation and their surfeit rubbed in! I'll leave it up to you and/or that peripatetic Melburnian (come to think of it, you're in the peripatetic league yourself :).

--- On Sun, 5/7/09, Michael Kennedy <mlk at activ8.net.au>
wrote:

Hi All,

I'm really favouring something along the lines of 'Tolkien and journeys'. 

It can be interpreted in many ways. It could be the physical or spiritual
journey of a character, Tolkien himself, or even the reader. Perhaps a
subtitle would serve as a useful signpost, although I would obviously expand
on this in a Call for Papers. If the general consensus is with me on this
then it's really just the wording that needs tweaking. 

Tolkien and Journeys

Tolkien - The Journey? 

Tolkien and Middle-earth - Journeys within and without.

Any suggestions welcome.

Michael





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From dragon at roots-boots.net  Tue Jul  7 17:18:08 2009
From: dragon at roots-boots.net (Marayong)
Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2009 17:18:08 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] Perilous Weather
In-Reply-To: <ecc18000907061620s763cd032xa7324f28af078ed0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <686558.6365.qm@web110210.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>	<F2B9DB20B76840768CA99252AA7AF3C8@Michael>
	<ecc18000907061620s763cd032xa7324f28af078ed0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A52F6B0.2030903@roots-boots.net>

Jeff Lynch wrote:

> Weather report...

Well here it reached a balmy 14c during the day but has since dropped to 
10.5C and falling. Some very light misty showers have been around the 
past 1/2 hour.

> I'm doing a favour for David this day (I hope) checking some detail (Public
> Records) for the man...a private thing tho' I do post it....never trust a
> poet!gin between the O and the L?

Depends on how much gin! Enuf gin and one wouldn't trust a <insert your 
preferred upright member of society>!

> So enough rubbish..... start of serious things...sighs aloud.....I will be
> 70 in less than eighteen months.....and this poses a problem...I have told
> several people that will grow up when I am seventy............What did I
> just tell you?

That you will grow up when you reach 70? Why ever for??? Growing up is 
over rated!!!!

Re the moot title ... Perilous Realms ... there's a fantasy series out 
by that name, so that could be a bit confusing. Very much NOT 'high 
fantasy', tho' not quite down to the D&D level. Hmmm... David Duncan is 
the author, I think.

I'd not call MR Perilous Realms anyway. Interesting, yes. But perilous 
... not really. No moreso than any other.

cheers,
David
-- 
Line dancing, Genealogy, Travel, Photography, Local history & more!
      http://roots-boots.net     mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net
The greatest tragedy that could overcome a country would be for it
  to fight a successful war in defence of liberty and to lose its
           own liberty in the process" - Robert Menzies


From krenon at y7mail.com  Tue Jul  7 17:19:59 2009
From: krenon at y7mail.com (krenon at y7mail.com)
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 00:19:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TolHarndor] Fairy King gets fairy dust
Message-ID: <929526.61380.qm@web110210.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hi Elise. Don't feel you need to accept my suggestion if your planned presentation fits the other word better.

I think your three ideas are fine except perhaps for the last, which seems to rather restrict the scope of the topic. However, you're touching on matters that interest me greatly. I've been browsing Tolkien's "On Fairy-stories" and generally considering the nature of fairies. Do you, in your lectures on "fairy-stories", define fairies and "faerie" and distinguish stories from tales? My main problem with Tolkien's essay is the way he presents and discusses examples. I personally have seen none of his examples and yet he addresses the reader as if the reader has read them.

Do you discuss W. B. Yeats' play "The Land of Heart's Desire" in your lectures? That play sets
 a fairy ("faery
 child"), and by inference fairies in general,
 against Roman Catholicism (she has the crucifix removed so that her powers would overcome any resistance put up by the mere mortals, then takes the soul of Mary Bruin). There appear to be elements of Tolkien's mind that are contradictory. What was it that Gauss reputedly said? "I am great: I contain multitudes".

--- On Tue, 7/7/09, dryad <dryad0404 at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

I like the grander word odyssey. It brings such an epic feel to the thing. Since I was planning on presenting about monsters and such, I was more keen on previous titles, alas. 
?
However, I lecture 'on fairy-stories' , and of course the hero's journey, and I have yet another presentation I could do.
?
How are these for titles...wording of the conference?
?
Tolkien: Odysseys and Fairy-stories
Tolkien: Odysseys and the Perilous Realm
Faerie and Tolkien's Odysseys:
 Navigating Perilous Realms
?
just a few
 ideas...
Elise





      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
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From krenon at y7mail.com  Tue Jul  7 19:07:57 2009
From: krenon at y7mail.com (Edwin Scribner)
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 02:07:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TolHarndor] Fairy King gets fairy dust
Message-ID: <65965.26249.qm@web110209.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

"All will be well, if ...if ...if.? if...if..."
Say the green bells of Cardiff"
- "The Bells of Rymney"

Time to clear the fairy king's fairy dust to make way for that host of golden daffodils at Falkirk.

--- On Tue, 7/7/09, Jeff Lynch <jeffreyblynch at gmail.com> wrote:


Huzzah for 'Tolkien and journeys'
And may the road...........
Weather report...
I'm doing a favour for David this day (I hope) checking some detail (Public
Records) for the man...a private thing tho' I do post it....never trust a
poet!gin between the O and the L?
A wonder this weather report is too.
Sooooo.Ashes manana....WOW.........NO Bing!
And at Wales for a first ever.....Glamorgan CC no less at
Cardiff........rising sound on the IFF your voice must go up to the end of
Cardifffff (higher).




      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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From jeffreyblynch at gmail.com  Wed Jul  8 09:32:34 2009
From: jeffreyblynch at gmail.com (Jeff Lynch)
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 09:32:34 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] Perilous Weather
In-Reply-To: <4A52F6B0.2030903@roots-boots.net>
References: <686558.6365.qm@web110210.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<F2B9DB20B76840768CA99252AA7AF3C8@Michael>
	<ecc18000907061620s763cd032xa7324f28af078ed0@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A52F6B0.2030903@roots-boots.net>
Message-ID: <ecc18000907071632j3e9eaac9n1c25e7393bab424b@mail.gmail.com>

David and good morn..............
Rang the said centre and gave over the details that you gave me
I asked should I go in there OR do an online?
She answered come in!
Today (this morn) is too fine a morning...I will go and walk my imaginary
labrador instead.........tomorrow (or the next am I will do it)
PS my imaginary dog's name is Fabianus
Jeff

On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 5:18 PM, Marayong <dragon at roots-boots.net> wrote:

> Jeff Lynch wrote:
>
> > Weather report...
>
> Well here it reached a balmy 14c during the day but has since dropped to
> 10.5C and falling. Some very light misty showers have been around the
> past 1/2 hour.
>
> > I'm doing a favour for David this day (I hope) checking some detail
> (Public
> > Records) for the man...a private thing tho' I do post it....never trust a
> > poet!gin between the O and the L?
>
> Depends on how much gin! Enuf gin and one wouldn't trust a <insert your
> preferred upright member of society>!
>
> > So enough rubbish..... start of serious things...sighs aloud.....I will
> be
> > 70 in less than eighteen months.....and this poses a problem...I have
> told
> > several people that will grow up when I am seventy............What did I
> > just tell you?
>
> That you will grow up when you reach 70? Why ever for??? Growing up is
> over rated!!!!
>
> Re the moot title ... Perilous Realms ... there's a fantasy series out
> by that name, so that could be a bit confusing. Very much NOT 'high
> fantasy', tho' not quite down to the D&D level. Hmmm... David Duncan is
> the author, I think.
>
> I'd not call MR Perilous Realms anyway. Interesting, yes. But perilous
> ... not really. No moreso than any other.
>
> cheers,
> David
> --
> Line dancing, Genealogy, Travel, Photography, Local history & more!
>      http://roots-boots.net     mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net
> The greatest tragedy that could overcome a country would be for it
>  to fight a successful war in defence of liberty and to lose its
>           own liberty in the process" - Robert Menzies
>
> _______________________________________________
> List mailing list
> List at tolharndor.org
> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
>

From jeffreyblynch at gmail.com  Wed Jul  8 09:34:35 2009
From: jeffreyblynch at gmail.com (Jeff Lynch)
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 09:34:35 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] Fairy King gets fairy dust
In-Reply-To: <65965.26249.qm@web110209.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <65965.26249.qm@web110209.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ecc18000907071634k48c6c418xa78c06948fda12c6@mail.gmail.com>

And what will you give me say the sad bells of Rhymney..................Ah
Pete Seeger in the sixties..nice to have a switched on hippie old man aboard
(as usual)\
fine here but frost last night
jeff

On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 7:07 PM, Edwin Scribner <krenon at y7mail.com> wrote:

> "All will be well, if ...if ...if.  if...if..."
> Say the green bells of Cardiff"
> - "The Bells of Rymney"
>
> Time to clear the fairy king's fairy dust to make way for that host of
> golden daffodils at Falkirk.
>
> --- On Tue, 7/7/09, Jeff Lynch <jeffreyblynch at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Huzzah for 'Tolkien and journeys'
> And may the road...........
> Weather report...
> I'm doing a favour for David this day (I hope) checking some detail (Public
> Records) for the man...a private thing tho' I do post it....never trust a
> poet!gin between the O and the L?
> A wonder this weather report is too.
> Sooooo.Ashes manana....WOW.........NO Bing!
> And at Wales for a first ever.....Glamorgan CC no less at
> Cardiff........rising sound on the IFF your voice must go up to the end of
> Cardifffff (higher).
>
>
>
>
>
>  ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
> Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail
> _______________________________________________
> List mailing list
> List at tolharndor.org
> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
>

From jeffreyblynch at gmail.com  Wed Jul  8 09:57:11 2009
From: jeffreyblynch at gmail.com (Jeff Lynch)
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 09:57:11 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] Fairy King gets fairy dust
In-Reply-To: <849222.12929.qm@web110201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <849222.12929.qm@web110201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ecc18000907071657j514c1a13u795b78a195a6d68a@mail.gmail.com>

For I was young and foolish..................WB Yeats I would fain discuss
this faerie hagged man of the sea cliffs at a hungry town on the edge the
world....Still I dream of the hill dat they call Knocknarea.hey and it is
outside a wee drab county town by the Sea.........And the folks for many
years did climb up a hill with heavy pockets...... but still mind you they
will go up that same hill with stones in their pockets now and to this very
day....and place them on the pile which forms a mound on top of that same
little mountain which overlooks the Atlantic Ocean.......I tell yet that
time stands still as you look out towards de top of America.if you are
dreaming right you can see it...I did not tho'.........dere's nothing in
between that  side of Eire and That.....(America I mean).........the tokens
of the carried stones..... being for THE Queen Mab......you tink me
joking?...Ah and I placed a few there meself.
WHY NOT?
Oh no I am never joking here.......for I've climbed Knocknarea all be
meself........ as I told you so
....I stayed at a farmyard room just around the corner from that faerie's
(Mab) mountain and I did paint it (that farmyard house) too...all by
myself...in acrylic paints....on a morning of great fugging and hard
frosts.....sooo cold was it that I had great trouble in holding the
paintbrush in my fine and delicate hands dat
time...........................a much misunderstood  poet Mr Yeats was
 And if you do take the time (called READING) he is and was and will
be a erudite man of fay words and right wing shit and fancy high minded but
Nationalistic viewed friends.So was Mr Yeats and should you ever do go to
Dublin just take the time to look him up......no not the parts left of the
man but his Museum...a great worth of it...it could  well be for you and
your budding sensibilities.......I  think.
A fine poet for all that too but was in lust with both weemen and the
other  world...the faerie one (or ones).
jeff
PS do you know that county town Ted?

From dryad0404 at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Jul  8 10:52:09 2009
From: dryad0404 at yahoo.co.uk (dryad)
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 00:52:09 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TolHarndor] Lectures on fairy-story
Message-ID: <213588.750.qm@web24615.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Well, 'Legion' also said something to the effect, I am one of many, I am Legion. How's that for blasphemy? Legion contained the souls of evil people, much like the Soul Eater. But I digress. Contradiction is the spice of life, so they say. lol.
?
I do explain the difference between what Tolkien called fairy-story and fairy tales that mascarade as fairy-story. So, yes to at least one part of the question. 
?
IMHO, I felt Tolkien was reasonably clear with such an enormous undertaking as compilations of Lang and Grimm et al, and he did present a good example, albeit a very Catholic dogmaticy one, "Leaf by Niggle." But think of "Smith of Wooten Major" and "Roverandom"? 
?
His example of the syntax of words and the meaning of them such as green and grass is just beautiful in its musings! I digress yet again. apologises.
?
For certain, this one story, "Leaf"?contains the four elements necessary for fairy-story: (here I launch into teacher mode--try not to fall asleep) Fantasy, Recovery, Escape, Consolation. Miss any one of these and Tolkien seemed to feel that the story was more along the lines of beast fable (eg.,?any Aesop fable, Puss-in-
Boots,? Beauty and the Beast, Little Red Riding Hood, Snow White and Rose Red, etc.); or creation myth (eg., ?any Greek/Roman/Norse god/goddess story). There are chapbooks for those who will take instruction straight up without the subtlety of animals who act like people.
?
Tolkien reminds me a bit of Poe in this sense. Poe said (among many things including the 'Imp of Perverse') that a short story need only set the mood and finish the story asap to be good....and then he only really follows his own advice in "Masque of the Red Death" going on?to write "Fall of the House of Usher" and "the Purloined Letter" and "the Strange Case of M Valdemar"!!?? Tolkien, I feel does something similar. He spends time in few short stories creating fairy-stories.? Ours is not to wonder....Sorry, brain disease, if you will forgive.
?
I have used some of Yeats, but he was such a nutter, that I stick mainly to a few poems like "Leda and the Swan" and "1916". His collections of fairy tales are quite wide and mostly, I do not have time to go over much since I am sneaking in the subject?amidst the required modern, or post-modern if you will, junk called literature nowadays. BAH, to writers who if they were not considered?minority here would never be published or read in academia! so poorly written they are!?Bane of my life! 
?
Sorry for the rant. Just not my cuppa is all. I can appreciate a slice of life, but for gods' sakes let it be well-written is all. Lately the crap they require us to use isn't worth the paper it is written on. Hope this doesn't offend anyone. My apologises if so.
?
Elise
?
?
?
?
?

--- On Tue, 7/7/09, krenon at y7mail.com <krenon at y7mail.com> wrote:


From: krenon at y7mail.com <krenon at y7mail.com>
Subject: Re: [TolHarndor] Fairy King gets fairy dust
To: "Tol Harndor - Australian Tolkien Society" <list at tolharndor.org>
Date: Tuesday, 7 July, 2009, 3:19 AM


Hi Elise. Don't feel you need to accept my suggestion if your planned presentation fits the other word better.

I think your three ideas are fine except perhaps for the last, which seems to rather restrict the scope of the topic. However, you're touching on matters that interest me greatly. I've been browsing Tolkien's "On Fairy-stories" and generally considering the nature of fairies. Do you, in your lectures on "fairy-stories", define fairies and "faerie" and distinguish stories from tales? My main problem with Tolkien's essay is the way he presents and discusses examples. I personally have seen none of his examples and yet he addresses the reader as if the reader has read them.

Do you discuss W. B. Yeats' play "The Land of Heart's Desire" in your lectures? That play sets
a fairy ("faery
child"), and by inference fairies in general,
against Roman Catholicism (she has the crucifix removed so that her powers would overcome any resistance put up by the mere mortals, then takes the soul of Mary Bruin). There appear to be elements of Tolkien's mind that are contradictory. What was it that Gauss reputedly said? "I am great: I contain multitudes".

--- On Tue, 7/7/09, dryad <dryad0404 at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

I like the grander word odyssey. It brings such an epic feel to the thing. Since I was planning on presenting about monsters and such, I was more keen on previous titles, alas. 
?
However, I lecture 'on fairy-stories' , and of course the hero's journey, and I have yet another presentation I could do.
?
How are these for titles...wording of the conference?
?
Tolkien: Odysseys and Fairy-stories
Tolkien: Odysseys and the Perilous Realm
Faerie and Tolkien's Odysseys:
Navigating Perilous Realms
?
just a few
ideas...
Elise





? ? ? ____________________________________________________________________________________
Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail
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List mailing list
List at tolharndor.org
http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org



      

From jeffreyblynch at gmail.com  Thu Jul  9 09:39:59 2009
From: jeffreyblynch at gmail.com (Jeff Lynch)
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 09:39:59 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] Lectures on fairy-story
In-Reply-To: <213588.750.qm@web24615.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
References: <213588.750.qm@web24615.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ecc18000907081639h7bab90xaa639dfd6489d47e@mail.gmail.com>

To Dear Dryad,
There have been hundreds of poets were are 'nutters' your word...you used
the singular.
This doe not disqualify them from beings fine poets...usually (i believe)
quite the opposite.....Ya could not have found another top nutter than Poe
(for instance)...but he wrote some of the finest 'horror/mystery' works in
the ole US of A....I think that you may agree.
Now Yeats was a most difficult t boyho.........so was Brendan Behan and so
was Dylan...the Thomas one.....but Christ Dylan (at least) was bloody fine
wordsmith as well ( and Behan between drinks a funny tale spinner....like
Milligan...........Nutters?....you might even agree on that.....Now Yeats
was often(as I've already said an almost fascist faerie ......twisted
shit....but 1916.....you give the example is such a splendid work........ as
is 'The Gyre' too.........and many more (I tink) whatsay?
love from Jeffrey b.

On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 10:52 AM, dryad <dryad0404 at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> Well, 'Legion' also said something to the effect, I am one of many, I am
> Legion. How's that for blasphemy? Legion contained the souls of evil people,
> much like the Soul Eater. But I digress. Contradiction is the spice of life,
> so they say. lol.
>
> I do explain the difference between what Tolkien called fairy-story and
> fairy tales that mascarade as fairy-story. So, yes to at least one part of
> the question.
>
> IMHO, I felt Tolkien was reasonably clear with such an enormous undertaking
> as compilations of Lang and Grimm et al, and he did present a good example,
> albeit a very Catholic dogmaticy one, "Leaf by Niggle." But think of "Smith
> of Wooten Major" and "Roverandom"?
>
> His example of the syntax of words and the meaning of them such as green
> and grass is just beautiful in its musings! I digress yet again. apologises.
>
> For certain, this one story, "Leaf" contains the four elements necessary
> for fairy-story: (here I launch into teacher mode--try not to fall asleep)
> Fantasy, Recovery, Escape, Consolation. Miss any one of these and Tolkien
> seemed to feel that the story was more along the lines of beast fable
> (eg., any Aesop fable, Puss-in-
> Boots,  Beauty and the Beast, Little Red Riding Hood, Snow White and Rose
> Red, etc.); or creation myth (eg.,  any Greek/Roman/Norse god/goddess
> story). There are chapbooks for those who will take instruction straight up
> without the subtlety of animals who act like people.
>
> Tolkien reminds me a bit of Poe in this sense. Poe said (among many things
> including the 'Imp of Perverse') that a short story need only set the mood
> and finish the story asap to be good....and then he only really follows his
> own advice in "Masque of the Red Death" going on to write "Fall of the House
> of Usher" and "the Purloined Letter" and "the Strange Case of M
> Valdemar"!!   Tolkien, I feel does something similar. He spends time in few
> short stories creating fairy-stories.  Ours is not to wonder....Sorry, brain
> disease, if you will forgive.
>
> I have used some of Yeats, but he was such a nutter, that I stick mainly to
> a few poems like "Leda and the Swan" and "1916". His collections of fairy
> tales are quite wide and mostly, I do not have time to go over much since I
> am sneaking in the subject amidst the required modern, or post-modern if you
> will, junk called literature nowadays. BAH, to writers who if they were not
> considered minority here would never be published or read in academia! so
> poorly written they are! Bane of my life!
>
> Sorry for the rant. Just not my cuppa is all. I can appreciate a slice of
> life, but for gods' sakes let it be well-written is all. Lately the crap
> they require us to use isn't worth the paper it is written on. Hope this
> doesn't offend anyone. My apologises if so.
>
> Elise
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- On Tue, 7/7/09, krenon at y7mail.com <krenon at y7mail.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: krenon at y7mail.com <krenon at y7mail.com>
> Subject: Re: [TolHarndor] Fairy King gets fairy dust
> To: "Tol Harndor - Australian Tolkien Society" <list at tolharndor.org>
> Date: Tuesday, 7 July, 2009, 3:19 AM
>
>
> Hi Elise. Don't feel you need to accept my suggestion if your planned
> presentation fits the other word better.
>
> I think your three ideas are fine except perhaps for the last, which seems
> to rather restrict the scope of the topic. However, you're touching on
> matters that interest me greatly. I've been browsing Tolkien's "On
> Fairy-stories" and generally considering the nature of fairies. Do you, in
> your lectures on "fairy-stories", define fairies and "faerie" and
> distinguish stories from tales? My main problem with Tolkien's essay is the
> way he presents and discusses examples. I personally have seen none of his
> examples and yet he addresses the reader as if the reader has read them.
>
> Do you discuss W. B. Yeats' play "The Land of Heart's Desire" in your
> lectures? That play sets
> a fairy ("faery
> child"), and by inference fairies in general,
> against Roman Catholicism (she has the crucifix removed so that her powers
> would overcome any resistance put up by the mere mortals, then takes the
> soul of Mary Bruin). There appear to be elements of Tolkien's mind that are
> contradictory. What was it that Gauss reputedly said? "I am great: I contain
> multitudes".
>
> --- On Tue, 7/7/09, dryad <dryad0404 at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> I like the grander word odyssey. It brings such an epic feel to the thing.
> Since I was planning on presenting about monsters and such, I was more keen
> on previous titles, alas.
>
> However, I lecture 'on fairy-stories' , and of course the hero's journey,
> and I have yet another presentation I could do.
>
> How are these for titles...wording of the conference?
>
> Tolkien: Odysseys and Fairy-stories
> Tolkien: Odysseys and the Perilous Realm
> Faerie and Tolkien's Odysseys:
> Navigating Perilous Realms
>
> just a few
> ideas...
> Elise
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
> Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail
> _______________________________________________
> List mailing list
> List at tolharndor.org
> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List mailing list
> List at tolharndor.org
> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
>

From dragon at roots-boots.net  Thu Jul  9 11:49:39 2009
From: dragon at roots-boots.net (Marayong)
Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 11:49:39 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] admin note
Message-ID: <4A554CB3.9070206@roots-boots.net>

G'day all,

I've been having some email issues with some ISP's and the fix has been 
to move my web package to another server, which includes the tol harndor 
site and mail list. You shouldn't notice any difference .. they are 
maintaining the whole thing on the old server for a few days before 
pulling the plug on it. The IP address has changed, but it shouldn't 
affect anyone out there (other than me).

If anyone finds a problem with the mail list or the website, please let 
me know so I can get it seen to.

cheers,
David
-- 
Line dancing, Genealogy, Travel, Photography, Local history & more!
      http://roots-boots.net     mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net
The greatest tragedy that could overcome a country would be for it
  to fight a successful war in defence of liberty and to lose its
           own liberty in the process" - Robert Menzies


From dragon at roots-boots.net  Thu Jul  9 17:16:17 2009
From: dragon at roots-boots.net (Marayong)
Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 17:16:17 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] Perilous Weather
In-Reply-To: <ecc18000907071632j3e9eaac9n1c25e7393bab424b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <686558.6365.qm@web110210.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>	<F2B9DB20B76840768CA99252AA7AF3C8@Michael>	<ecc18000907061620s763cd032xa7324f28af078ed0@mail.gmail.com>	<4A52F6B0.2030903@roots-boots.net>
	<ecc18000907071632j3e9eaac9n1c25e7393bab424b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A559941.8000002@roots-boots.net>

G'day Jeff,

> Rang the said centre and gave over the details that you gave me
> I asked should I go in there OR do an online?
> She answered come in!

No, definitely have to go there. If one could order it online, I would 
have done so. :(

> Today (this morn) is too fine a morning...I will go and walk my imaginary
> labrador instead.........tomorrow (or the next am I will do it)
> PS my imaginary dog's name is Fabianus

Imaginary lab's? Better than the real thing .. no poop, no fleas, no 
slobber and drool .. and feeling costs are a lot lower. :)

cheers,
David


> 
> On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 5:18 PM, Marayong <dragon at roots-boots.net> wrote:
> 
>> Jeff Lynch wrote:
>>
>>> Weather report...
>> Well here it reached a balmy 14c during the day but has since dropped to
>> 10.5C and falling. Some very light misty showers have been around the
>> past 1/2 hour.
>>
>>> I'm doing a favour for David this day (I hope) checking some detail
>> (Public
>>> Records) for the man...a private thing tho' I do post it....never trust a
>>> poet!gin between the O and the L?
>> Depends on how much gin! Enuf gin and one wouldn't trust a <insert your
>> preferred upright member of society>!
>>
>>> So enough rubbish..... start of serious things...sighs aloud.....I will
>> be
>>> 70 in less than eighteen months.....and this poses a problem...I have
>> told
>>> several people that will grow up when I am seventy............What did I
>>> just tell you?
>> That you will grow up when you reach 70? Why ever for??? Growing up is
>> over rated!!!!
>>
>> Re the moot title ... Perilous Realms ... there's a fantasy series out
>> by that name, so that could be a bit confusing. Very much NOT 'high
>> fantasy', tho' not quite down to the D&D level. Hmmm... David Duncan is
>> the author, I think.
>>
>> I'd not call MR Perilous Realms anyway. Interesting, yes. But perilous
>> ... not really. No moreso than any other.
>>
>> cheers,
>> David
>> --
>> Line dancing, Genealogy, Travel, Photography, Local history & more!
>>      http://roots-boots.net     mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net
>> The greatest tragedy that could overcome a country would be for it
>>  to fight a successful war in defence of liberty and to lose its
>>           own liberty in the process" - Robert Menzies
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> List mailing list
>> List at tolharndor.org
>> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> List mailing list
> List at tolharndor.org
> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
> 

-- 
Line dancing, Genealogy, Travel, Photography, Local history & more!
      http://roots-boots.net     mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net
The greatest tragedy that could overcome a country would be for it
  to fight a successful war in defence of liberty and to lose its
           own liberty in the process" - Robert Menzies


From jeffreyblynch at gmail.com  Sat Jul 11 10:00:54 2009
From: jeffreyblynch at gmail.com (Jeff Lynch)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 10:00:54 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] admin note
In-Reply-To: <4A554CB3.9070206@roots-boots.net>
References: <4A554CB3.9070206@roots-boots.net>
Message-ID: <ecc18000907101700k2af45b84v4da0c6b426ce720f@mail.gmail.com>

David ............I found her( Hannah C) and two other Carrols on the same
ship  the one at 20 years of age and the other two at eighteen.....including
Hannah.....I  am sending the copies of the (manifest?) to you via snail mail
It seems that they may have been put to service in St Kilda....Two of these
women appear to come from Middlesex (that is to say England).....the other
from Dublin( now Eire)........
The relationship between these three women is not apparent (at least to me)

Wit for an envelope from me...I remain
Some thing or other..It was fun looking them up
Jeff

On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Marayong <dragon at roots-boots.net> wrote:

> G'day all,
>
> I've been having some email issues with some ISP's and the fix has been to
> move my web package to another server, which includes the tol harndor site
> and mail list. You shouldn't notice any difference .. they are maintaining
> the whole thing on the old server for a few days before pulling the plug on
> it. The IP address has changed, but it shouldn't affect anyone out there
> (other than me).
>
> If anyone finds a problem with the mail list or the website, please let me
> know so I can get it seen to.
>
> cheers,
> David
> --
> Line dancing, Genealogy, Travel, Photography, Local history & more!
>     http://roots-boots.net     mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net
> The greatest tragedy that could overcome a country would be for it
>  to fight a successful war in defence of liberty and to lose its
>          own liberty in the process" - Robert Menzies
>
> _______________________________________________
> List mailing list
> List at tolharndor.org
> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
>

From mlk at activ8.net.au  Sun Jul 12 11:13:00 2009
From: mlk at activ8.net.au (Michael Kennedy)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 11:13:00 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] Fairy King gets fairy dust
In-Reply-To: <967678.46041.qm@web110208.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <76315CCBBD964F80865BFD69C2D57C23@Michael>

Hi All,

Odyssey! I love it! It is an epic word that resonates on a variety of levels
and fits seamlessly with Tolkienism. I am, however, not totally convinced of
the wording;

Tolkien and his Odysseys

How about something like:

Tolkien's Odysseys - Middle-earth and beyond 

I guess I'm trying to give the impression that it's not just about the man,
but his creations. I don't know though, and if the general consensus is
otherwise either I'm happy to go either way, or even with another variation.
Definite about 'odyssey' though.

It's a little delayed but the TS want to publish a Peter Roe Booklet
containing the papers from the Sydney Seminar. I have reservations about how
practical this is given the elapsed time. I do have comprehensive abstracts
of all the presentations, but if any of you have a more expanded version
that you would like published then just let me know. Specifically that would
be Elise, Peter and Ted.

Michael

PS. Ted - do you know of Richard Harland's new book - 'World Shaker'? I'm
off to the official launch next week!

> -----Original Message-----
> From: list-bounces at tolharndor.org [mailto:list-
> bounces at tolharndor.org] On Behalf Of krenon at y7mail.com
> Sent: Monday, 6 July 2009 10:52 AM
> To: Tol Harndor - Australian Tolkien Society
> Subject: Re: [TolHarndor] Fairy King gets fairy dust
> 
> Hi Michael.
> 
> I'm going to suggest that you swap the word "journey" for one
> much more grand and profound. I'd like to suggest that you
> change "journey" for "odyssey".
> 
> The Merriam-Webster online dictionary gives the meaning of
> "odyssey" as:
> 
> 1 :? a long wandering or voyage usually marked by many changes
> of fortune
> 
> 2 :? an intellectual or spiritual wandering or quest
> 
> I'm sure that you can see several odysseys in Tolkien's writing,
> and usually anyone's life is an odyssey of sorts. "Odyssey"
> does not necessarily mean "quest" but the heroic quest of
> fantasy fiction is usually long and certainly is marked by
> changes of fortune; also there is usually, if not always, a
> spiritual component.
> 
> The definitive odyssey has moments of
>  setback, moments of despair, moments where the
>  whole future hangs by a thread, then of course moments of
> triumph and joy - the so-called (by Tolkien) "consolation". But
> are they all happy endings? One could hardly say that the tale
> of Turin had a happy ending. Are they all a "completion"?
> Arguably Tolkien's life work was incomplete and, although a
> great part of it is now in print, I have felt that he would
> have disapproved of the way his son edited and published at
> least some of it.
> 
> But I think that we could make a strong case that the above and
> others relating to the modest Oxford don who wrote the
> "greatest book of the 20th century" as odysseys and well worthy
> of examination, analysis and discussion. So I suggest that you
> name the seminar "Tolkien and his Odysseys".
> 
> Oh btw, Oberon got some more snow last week, while Blackheath
> missed out again. Could you please change the thread title? I
> don't need our deprivation and their surfeit rubbed in! I'll
> leave it up to you and/or that peripatetic Melburnian (come to
> think of it, you're in the peripatetic league yourself :).
> 
> --- On Sun, 5/7/09, Michael Kennedy <mlk at activ8.net.au>
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> I'm really favouring something along the lines of 'Tolkien and
> journeys'.
> 
> It can be interpreted in many ways. It could be the physical or
> spiritual
> journey of a character, Tolkien himself, or even the reader.
> Perhaps a
> subtitle would serve as a useful signpost, although I would
> obviously expand
> on this in a Call for Papers. If the general consensus is with
> me on this
> then it's really just the wording that needs tweaking.
> 
> Tolkien and Journeys
> 
> Tolkien - The Journey
> 
> Tolkien and Middle-earth - Journeys within and without.
> 
> Any suggestions welcome.
> 
> Michael
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________________________
> _____________________
> Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
> Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail
> _______________________________________________
> List mailing list
> List at tolharndor.org
> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org





From krenon at y7mail.com  Sun Jul 12 19:05:24 2009
From: krenon at y7mail.com (Edwin Scribner)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 02:05:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TolHarndor]   2010 Tolkien Seminar
In-Reply-To: <76315CCBBD964F80865BFD69C2D57C23@Michael>
Message-ID: <832255.64106.qm@web110216.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hi Michael,

I felt the need to ditch the fairy subject (heard of Justine Larbalestier's book "How to Ditch your Fairy"?) especially as they keep getting snow and we don't :(

That's fine, although any variation on the theme would suit me - the main thing in my estimation is to give plenty of scope for papers. I agree that both his life and his works need to be encompassed.

Regarding a Peter Roe booklet, I can give you a full text of my talk. If you want it reduced, let me know how many words it should be.

Regarding Richard and Worldshaker (I think the publisher wanted a one word title): you heard that it was accepted by American publishers? Richard read a bit of it at Garry Dalrymple's Freecon last November. I really like the sound of it. It's his first venture into steampunk (the notion is that Napoleon had a tunnel made under the English Channel so that his army could invade Britain), and I fully intend to get a copy when it's released here. I got a letter from Richard about the launch (it has already been launched at the national sf convention, held recently in Adelaide) and I'm hoping that he might do another launch at a Sydney venue, but Wollongong is a bit far for me to come just for an afternoon book launch. Say hi to him for me, will you?

Cheers,

Ted

--- On Sun, 12/7/09, Michael Kennedy <mlk at activ8.net.au> wrote:
Odyssey! I love it! It is an epic word that resonates on a variety of levels
and fits seamlessly with Tolkienism. I am, however, not totally convinced of
the wording;

Tolkien and his Odysseys

How about something like:

Tolkien's Odysseys - Middle-earth and beyond 

I guess I'm trying to give the impression that it's not just about the man,
but his creations. I don't know though, and if the general consensus is
otherwise either I'm happy to go either way, or even with another variation.
Definite about 'odyssey' though.

It's a little delayed but the TS want to publish a Peter Roe Booklet
containing the papers from the Sydney Seminar. I have reservations about how
practical this is given the elapsed time. I do have comprehensive abstracts
of all the presentations, but if any of you have a more expanded version
that you would like published then just let me know. Specifically that would
be Elise, Peter and Ted.

Michael

PS. Ted - do you know of Richard Harland's new book - 'World Shaker'? I'm
off to the official launch next week!





      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail

From jeffreyblynch at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 09:44:35 2009
From: jeffreyblynch at gmail.com (Jeff Lynch)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 09:44:35 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] Fairy King gets fairy dust
In-Reply-To: <76315CCBBD964F80865BFD69C2D57C23@Michael>
References: <967678.46041.qm@web110208.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<76315CCBBD964F80865BFD69C2D57C23@Michael>
Message-ID: <ecc18000907121644l63bf7b5dx140e6d84a5bcacfd@mail.gmail.com>

    How odd to have an Odyssey?

How odd to have an Odyssey?
How useless Ulysses was so often.
Tied to the mast for mistrusting himself,
To keep Penelope pissed off for so long,
While he tarries with a magically enticing one.

How odd to have an Odyssey?
To go there and struggle to return.
To have your head turned by so
Many women and to spurn them
And just in the nick of the cruel Gods' time.

How odd to have an Odysssey?
To disguise oneself as being so blind.
And to chuck out the scroungers, from
One's Ithican lounges and to proceed to
Bed your old indoors, and not before sweet time.
jeff lynch




On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 11:13 AM, Michael Kennedy <mlk at activ8.net.au> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Odyssey! I love it! It is an epic word that resonates on a variety of
> levels
> and fits seamlessly with Tolkienism. I am, however, not totally convinced
> of
> the wording;
>
> Tolkien and his Odysseys
>
> How about something like:
>
> Tolkien's Odysseys - Middle-earth and beyond
>
> I guess I'm trying to give the impression that it's not just about the man,
> but his creations. I don't know though, and if the general consensus is
> otherwise either I'm happy to go either way, or even with another
> variation.
> Definite about 'odyssey' though.
>
> It's a little delayed but the TS want to publish a Peter Roe Booklet
> containing the papers from the Sydney Seminar. I have reservations about
> how
> practical this is given the elapsed time. I do have comprehensive abstracts
> of all the presentations, but if any of you have a more expanded version
> that you would like published then just let me know. Specifically that
> would
> be Elise, Peter and Ted.
>
> Michael
>
> PS. Ted - do you know of Richard Harland's new book - 'World Shaker'? I'm
> off to the official launch next week!
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: list-bounces at tolharndor.org [mailto:list-
> > bounces at tolharndor.org] On Behalf Of krenon at y7mail.com
> > Sent: Monday, 6 July 2009 10:52 AM
> > To: Tol Harndor - Australian Tolkien Society
> > Subject: Re: [TolHarndor] Fairy King gets fairy dust
> >
>  > Hi Michael.
> >
> > I'm going to suggest that you swap the word "journey" for one
> > much more grand and profound. I'd like to suggest that you
> > change "journey" for "odyssey".
> >
> > The Merriam-Webster online dictionary gives the meaning of
> > "odyssey" as:
> >
> > 1 :  a long wandering or voyage usually marked by many changes
> > of fortune
> >
> > 2 :  an intellectual or spiritual wandering or quest
> >
> > I'm sure that you can see several odysseys in Tolkien's writing,
> > and usually anyone's life is an odyssey of sorts. "Odyssey"
> > does not necessarily mean "quest" but the heroic quest of
> > fantasy fiction is usually long and certainly is marked by
> > changes of fortune; also there is usually, if not always, a
> > spiritual component.
> >
> > The definitive odyssey has moments of
> >  setback, moments of despair, moments where the
> >  whole future hangs by a thread, then of course moments of
> > triumph and joy - the so-called (by Tolkien) "consolation". But
> > are they all happy endings? One could hardly say that the tale
> > of Turin had a happy ending. Are they all a "completion"?
> > Arguably Tolkien's life work was incomplete and, although a
> > great part of it is now in print, I have felt that he would
> > have disapproved of the way his son edited and published at
> > least some of it.
> >
> > But I think that we could make a strong case that the above and
> > others relating to the modest Oxford don who wrote the
> > "greatest book of the 20th century" as odysseys and well worthy
> > of examination, analysis and discussion. So I suggest that you
> > name the seminar "Tolkien and his Odysseys".
> >
> > Oh btw, Oberon got some more snow last week, while Blackheath
> > missed out again. Could you please change the thread title? I
> > don't need our deprivation and their surfeit rubbed in! I'll
> > leave it up to you and/or that peripatetic Melburnian (come to
> > think of it, you're in the peripatetic league yourself :).
> >
> > --- On Sun, 5/7/09, Michael Kennedy <mlk at activ8.net.au>
> >  wrote:
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I'm really favouring something along the lines of 'Tolkien and
> > journeys'.
> >
> > It can be interpreted in many ways. It could be the physical or
> > spiritual
> > journey of a character, Tolkien himself, or even the reader.
> > Perhaps a
> > subtitle would serve as a useful signpost, although I would
> > obviously expand
> > on this in a Call for Papers. If the general consensus is with
> > me on this
> > then it's really just the wording that needs tweaking.
> >
> > Tolkien and Journeys
> >
> > Tolkien - The Journey
> >
> > Tolkien and Middle-earth - Journeys within and without.
> >
> > Any suggestions welcome.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________________________
> > _____________________
> > Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
> > Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail
> > _______________________________________________
> > List mailing list
> > List at tolharndor.org
> > http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List mailing list
> List at tolharndor.org
> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
>

From krenon at y7mail.com  Tue Jul 14 14:43:43 2009
From: krenon at y7mail.com (Edwin Scribner)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 21:43:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TolHarndor] Fairy King gets fairy dust
In-Reply-To: <ecc18000907121644l63bf7b5dx140e6d84a5bcacfd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <718167.24130.qm@web110211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

An interesting poem, Jeff. It has something of the jerking, odd-rhyming quality of one of my favourites: C. Day Lewis's "Flight to Australia", and in some respects it has a touch of the cadence of Tolkien's poetry which, as I seem to recall, you were less keen on than his prose.

However, I'm left wondering whether you prefer "odyssey" or "journey".

Btw I am inclined to agree with you about Elise's reference to W. B. Yeats as a "nutter". Is this considered reasonable in the arts world? Certainly you couldn't get away with it in the world of science; not without a lot of hard evidence (of which there was in the case of some infamous scientific hoaxes). Coming from a scientific background, I am cautious to rush into the art/literary world with criticism, and moreover I haven't read nearly enough of W. B. Yeats to make informed comment on him in general.

More on fairies when I can dig up more. Richard Harland, whom you've met and heard something of, did a lot of research into angels before he wrote his "Heaven and Earth" trilogy. A similar exercise regarding fairies might be useful.

The BOM has been teasing us! Forecast on the noon news: snow on the southern tablelands and possibly also the central tablelands. Bring it on, o Snow-white my Lady Fair!

--- On Mon, 13/7/09, Jeff Lynch <jeffreyblynch at gmail.com> wrote:



? ? How odd to have an Odyssey?

How odd to have an Odyssey?
How useless Ulysses was so often.
Tied to the mast for mistrusting himself,
To keep Penelope pissed off for so long,
While he tarries with a magically enticing one.

How odd to have an Odyssey?
To go there and struggle to return.
To have your head turned by so
Many women and to spurn them
And just in the nick of the cruel Gods' time.

How odd to have an Odysssey?
To disguise oneself as being so blind.
And to chuck out the scroungers, from
One's Ithican lounges and to proceed to
Bed your old indoors, and not before sweet time.

jeff lynch





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From jeffreyblynch at gmail.com  Tue Jul 14 18:42:30 2009
From: jeffreyblynch at gmail.com (Jeff Lynch)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 18:42:30 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] Fairy King gets fairy dust
In-Reply-To: <718167.24130.qm@web110211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <ecc18000907121644l63bf7b5dx140e6d84a5bcacfd@mail.gmail.com>
	<718167.24130.qm@web110211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ecc18000907140142y3439a790h179e1ddebb76db7b@mail.gmail.com>

Dear ted,
I will never apoligize (American) fot the lower case.
 do like lower cases
And yes and WB Y was someting other than a nutter....strange perhaps.....but
of course he WAS a poet!
Enoughj said.......so he believed in Faeries?
What about the rest of the Irish (Nation?)
And indeed ALL the fing Celts.....see I rememberedyour values then Ted.
So thanks for the words on my tiny poem.......Hey .....and I prefer
journeys....after all I'm only a Hobbit.

jeff


On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 2:43 PM, Edwin Scribner <krenon at y7mail.com> wrote:

> An interesting poem, Jeff. It has something of the jerking, odd-rhyming
> quality of one of my favourites: C. Day Lewis's "Flight to Australia", and
> in some respects it has a touch of the cadence of Tolkien's poetry which, as
> I seem to recall, you were less keen on than his prose.
>
> However, I'm left wondering whether you prefer "odyssey" or "journey".
>
> Btw I am inclined to agree with you about Elise's reference to W. B. Yeats
> as a "nutter". Is this considered reasonable in the arts world? Certainly
> you couldn't get away with it in the world of science; not without a lot of
> hard evidence (of which there was in the case of some infamous scientific
> hoaxes). Coming from a scientific background, I am cautious to rush into the
> art/literary world with criticism, and moreover I haven't read nearly enough
> of W. B. Yeats to make informed comment on him in general.
>
> More on fairies when I can dig up more. Richard Harland, whom you've met
> and heard something of, did a lot of research into angels before he wrote
> his "Heaven and Earth" trilogy. A similar exercise regarding fairies might
> be useful.
>
> The BOM has been teasing us! Forecast on the noon news: snow on the
> southern tablelands and possibly also the central tablelands. Bring it on, o
> Snow-white my Lady Fair!
>
> --- On Mon, 13/7/09, Jeff Lynch <jeffreyblynch at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>     How odd to have an Odyssey?
>
> How odd to have an Odyssey?
> How useless Ulysses was so often.
> Tied to the mast for mistrusting himself,
> To keep Penelope pissed off for so long,
> While he tarries with a magically enticing one.
>
> How odd to have an Odyssey?
> To go there and struggle to return.
> To have your head turned by so
> Many women and to spurn them
> And just in the nick of the cruel Gods' time.
>
> How odd to have an Odysssey?
> To disguise oneself as being so blind.
> And to chuck out the scroungers, from
> One's Ithican lounges and to proceed to
> Bed your old indoors, and not before sweet time.
>
> jeff lynch
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  ____________________________________________________________________________________
>  Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
> Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail
> _______________________________________________
> List mailing list
> List at tolharndor.org
> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
>

From mlk at activ8.net.au  Tue Jul 14 22:04:22 2009
From: mlk at activ8.net.au (Michael Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 22:04:22 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] 2010 Tolkien Seminar
In-Reply-To: <832255.64106.qm@web110216.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AA02B2AB099C4BF48667D348E16EBBEC@Michael>

Hi Ted,

Don't know that the Fairy book. It does sound intriguing though.

The full text would be preferable Ted. That's what they are asking for. 

I did hear from Richard in regards to signing up with an American publisher
- no mean feat. I will pass on your regards. I'm not sure if Richard chose
the venue because of its name but it will be held at Australia's Industry
World, Springhill Road, Coniston. 

In regards to our Tolkien Seminar I am putting together a Call for Papers,
which I will pass on to the TS for starters. Actually, I will forward it to
the group first for editing.

Michael


> -----Original Message-----
> From: list-bounces at tolharndor.org [mailto:list-
> bounces at tolharndor.org] On Behalf Of Edwin Scribner
> Sent: Sunday, 12 July 2009 7:05 PM
> To: Tol Harndor - Australian Tolkien Society
> Subject: [TolHarndor] 2010 Tolkien Seminar
> 
> Hi Michael,
> 
> I felt the need to ditch the fairy subject (heard of Justine
> Larbalestier's book "How to Ditch your Fairy"?) especially as
> they keep getting snow and we don't :(
> 
> That's fine, although any variation on the theme would suit me
> - the main thing in my estimation is to give plenty of scope
> for papers. I agree that both his life and his works need to be
> encompassed.
> 
> Regarding a Peter Roe booklet, I can give you a full text of my
> talk. If you want it reduced, let me know how many words it
> should be.
> 
> Regarding Richard and Worldshaker (I think the publisher wanted
> a one word title): you heard that it was accepted by American
> publishers? Richard read a bit of it at Garry Dalrymple's
> Freecon last November. I really like the sound of it. It's his
> first venture into steampunk (the notion is that Napoleon had a
> tunnel made under the English Channel so that his army could
> invade Britain), and I fully intend to get a copy when it's
> released here. I got a letter from Richard about the launch (it
> has already been launched at the national sf convention, held
> recently in Adelaide) and I'm hoping that he might do another
> launch at a Sydney venue, but Wollongong is a bit far for me to
> come just for an afternoon book launch. Say hi to him for me,
> will you?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Ted
> 
> --- On Sun, 12/7/09, Michael Kennedy <mlk at activ8.net.au> wrote:
> Odyssey! I love it! It is an epic word that resonates on a
> variety of levels
> and fits seamlessly with Tolkienism. I am, however, not totally
> convinced of
> the wording;
> 
> Tolkien and his Odysseys
> 
> How about something like:
> 
> Tolkien's Odysseys - Middle-earth and beyond
> 
> I guess I'm trying to give the impression that it's not just
> about the man,
> but his creations. I don't know though, and if the general
> consensus is
> otherwise either I'm happy to go either way, or even with
> another variation.
> Definite about 'odyssey' though.
> 
> It's a little delayed but the TS want to publish a Peter Roe
> Booklet
> containing the papers from the Sydney Seminar. I have
> reservations about how
> practical this is given the elapsed time. I do have
> comprehensive abstracts
> of all the presentations, but if any of you have a more
> expanded version
> that you would like published then just let me know.
> Specifically that would
> be Elise, Peter and Ted.
> 
> Michael
> 
> PS. Ted - do you know of Richard Harland's new book - 'World
> Shaker'? I'm
> off to the official launch next week!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________________________
> _____________________
> Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
> Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail
> _______________________________________________
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> List at tolharndor.org
> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org





From krenon at y7mail.com  Wed Jul 15 08:41:58 2009
From: krenon at y7mail.com (Edwin Scribner)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 15:41:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TolHarndor] 2010 Tolkien Seminar
In-Reply-To: <AA02B2AB099C4BF48667D348E16EBBEC@Michael>
Message-ID: <105364.87366.qm@web110212.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

I read that first sentence without looking at what you were replying to. To "don't know that the fairy book" I was inclined to say "no - they just roll up and hope to get in" :) Justine Larbalestier used to live around your part of the world, when she was in Australia which I gather is about six months of the year (otherwise she's in New York). However I think she's now moved to Sydney. There's some stuff about "Ditch your Fairy" on her website - just ask Mr Google for the url.

I'd lost track of when Richard's book launch was. The venue was definitely connected in some way to the content of the book but I think it was also chosen for handiness to his place and facilities available. I'm still hopeful of his having a launch at Galaxy (Sydney) or Infinitas/Blokey Stuff (Parramatta).

I'll send you a full text of my presentation at the previous Tolkien seminar. Since you say you'll send your CFP to the group first I'll get a chance to see, and perhaps comment on, what you have in mind re length of presentation; not that I have any well formed ideas about that myself. If you can get it sorted out by the end of this month it can go in next month's Bullsheet - I can put it on the web page any time but if you want it to go out in the email version it needs to reach Edwina Harvey ( edwinafan at yahoo.com or celestialcobbler at hotmail.com ) at latest a day or two before the first of August.


--- On Tue, 14/7/09, Michael Kennedy <mlk at activ8.net.au> wrote:

Hi Ted,

Don't know that the Fairy book. It does sound intriguing though.

The full text would be preferable Ted. That's what they are asking for. 

I did hear from Richard in regards to signing up with an American publisher
- no mean feat. I will pass on your regards. I'm not sure if Richard chose
the venue because of its name but it will be held at Australia's Industry
World, Springhill Road, Coniston. 

In regards to our Tolkien Seminar I am putting together a Call for Papers,
which I will pass on to the TS for starters. Actually, I will forward it to
the group first for editing.

Michael






      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
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From krenon at y7mail.com  Wed Jul 15 08:42:08 2009
From: krenon at y7mail.com (Edwin Scribner)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 15:42:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TolHarndor] 2010 Tolkien Seminar
In-Reply-To: <AA02B2AB099C4BF48667D348E16EBBEC@Michael>
Message-ID: <485418.6305.qm@web110204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

I read that first sentence without looking at what you were replying to. To "don't know that the fairy book" I was inclined to say "no - they just roll up and hope to get in" :) Justine Larbalestier used to live around your part of the world, when she was in Australia which I gather is about six months of the year (otherwise she's in New York). However I think she's now moved to Sydney. There's some stuff about "Ditch your Fairy" on her website - just ask Mr Google for the url.

I'd lost track of when Richard's book launch was. The venue was definitely connected in some way to the content of the book but I think it was also chosen for handiness to his place and facilities available. I'm still hopeful of his having a launch at Galaxy (Sydney) or Infinitas/Blokey Stuff (Parramatta).

I'll send you a full text of my presentation at the previous Tolkien seminar. Since you say you'll send your CFP to the group first I'll get a chance to see, and perhaps comment on, what you have in mind re length of presentation; not that I have any well formed ideas about that myself. If you can get it sorted out by the end of this month it can go in next month's Bullsheet - I can put it on the web page any time but if you want it to go out in the email version it needs to reach Edwina Harvey ( edwinafan at yahoo.com or celestialcobbler at hotmail.com ) at latest a day or two before the first of August.


--- On Tue, 14/7/09, Michael Kennedy <mlk at activ8.net.au> wrote:

Hi Ted,

Don't know that the Fairy book. It does sound intriguing though.

The full text would be preferable Ted. That's what they are asking for. 

I did hear from Richard in regards to signing up with an American publisher
- no mean feat. I will pass on your regards. I'm not sure if Richard chose
the venue because of its name but it will be held at Australia's Industry
World, Springhill Road, Coniston. 

In regards to our Tolkien Seminar I am putting together a Call for Papers,
which I will pass on to the TS for starters. Actually, I will forward it to
the group first for editing.

Michael






      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail

From dragon at roots-boots.net  Thu Jul 16 13:40:57 2009
From: dragon at roots-boots.net (Marayong)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 13:40:57 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] admin note
In-Reply-To: <4A5930FC.6050903@roots-boots.net>
References: <4A554CB3.9070206@roots-boots.net>	
	<ecc18000907101700k2af45b84v4da0c6b426ce720f@mail.gmail.com>	
	<4A5930FC.6050903@roots-boots.net>
Message-ID: <4A5EA149.5090204@roots-boots.net>

Forwarding for Jeff ...

Hi All,
Due to David asking me to do a small amount of research @Melb (VIC) 
Records It lead me to thinking......(wondres) I looked up the Tolkanet 
to see if cricket Records were published.....They were and this is an 
archival tresure trove...I found (wold you believe) THE records of 
twelve years of Shire Cricket in te form of annual fixtures....Scores 
the tyeans (changing compositio ) Scaray (for instance)  had to withdraw 
from te competiotion for 3 years in a row!
I have reults and ven better I found five actual (copies )of  cricket 
Score Books .......fully filled in wqith the day's play....this prob 
amounts to about fifty matches....or more.....maybe as many as 80...I 
need to study these more carefully........
I will publish these v soon...if  you love hobbits and cricket watch out 
fo\e this!...most f the matereial issues from the local 'Shire Newsrag I 
think I may safely say that I can publish these without fear or threat 
of copyrights etc,,,,,,,,,,,,,
jeff


From dragon at roots-boots.net  Thu Jul 16 13:47:44 2009
From: dragon at roots-boots.net (Marayong)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 13:47:44 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] admin note
In-Reply-To: <4A5EA149.5090204@roots-boots.net>
References: <4A554CB3.9070206@roots-boots.net>		<ecc18000907101700k2af45b84v4da0c6b426ce720f@mail.gmail.com>		<4A5930FC.6050903@roots-boots.net>
	<4A5EA149.5090204@roots-boots.net>
Message-ID: <4A5EA2E0.5050807@roots-boots.net>

Cricket & the Shire ...

When I was a member of the TS back in the 80's I recall several issues 
of Amon Hen and even the Silmarillion had copious writings on cricket in 
the shire, even recreations of matches, complete with scores, highlights 
and so forth. I can tell no more than that, alas.

On a totally different note ... I'm at home on holidays and have the 
foxtel country music channel playing in the background .. there's 
nothing on the whole of foxtel worth watching .. believe it or not, 
playing at the moment are tracks from Robert Plant's latest album .. of 
Led Zeppelin fame. From heavy metal cum blues to country??!! The album 
is a duet with a well known country singer.

Well I guess it is somewhat on theme ... Tolkien's writings provided a 
lot of the inspiration for Led Zep's music.

cheers,
David

Marayong wrote:
> Forwarding for Jeff ...
> 
> Hi All,
> Due to David asking me to do a small amount of research @Melb (VIC) 
> Records It lead me to thinking......(wondres) I looked up the Tolkanet 
> to see if cricket Records were published.....They were and this is an 
> archival tresure trove...I found (wold you believe) THE records of 
> twelve years of Shire Cricket in te form of annual fixtures....Scores 
> the tyeans (changing compositio ) Scaray (for instance)  had to withdraw 
> from te competiotion for 3 years in a row!
> I have reults and ven better I found five actual (copies )of  cricket 
> Score Books .......fully filled in wqith the day's play....this prob 
> amounts to about fifty matches....or more.....maybe as many as 80...I 
> need to study these more carefully........
> I will publish these v soon...if  you love hobbits and cricket watch out 
> fo\e this!...most f the matereial issues from the local 'Shire Newsrag I 
> think I may safely say that I can publish these without fear or threat 
> of copyrights etc,,,,,,,,,,,,,
> jeff
> 
> _______________________________________________
> List mailing list
> List at tolharndor.org
> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
> 

-- 
Line dancing, Genealogy, Travel, Photography, Local history & more!
      http://roots-boots.net     mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net
The greatest tragedy that could overcome a country would be for it
  to fight a successful war in defence of liberty and to lose its
           own liberty in the process" - Robert Menzies


From jeffreyblynch at gmail.com  Fri Jul 17 09:17:03 2009
From: jeffreyblynch at gmail.com (Jeff Lynch)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 09:17:03 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] 2010 Tolkien Seminar
In-Reply-To: <AA02B2AB099C4BF48667D348E16EBBEC@Michael>
References: <832255.64106.qm@web110216.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<AA02B2AB099C4BF48667D348E16EBBEC@Michael>
Message-ID: <ecc18000907161617q2295d147xaac6684091501bdf@mail.gmail.com>

Michael mainly,
A premature request re our  con.
I would feel better M if you would 'compere the do...in spite of former
claims......by moi...maybe I might do something similar to the last....do a
rapid intro to the do.....this time I feel that should pick on Ted rather
than you.
I would introduce folks to the artwork done by Tony.....who is to be 'our
resident artist'
and try tro flog the work....if that's what the man wants to do.....the rest
would (I suppose) be my own recipe.
jeff
PS I have wounded myself out in my garden....no not wounded by approaching
spring tho' that is often the most horrible of wounds.....'April is the
cruellest month'

But I had a fall.....and....fell onto a metal B stake....if you do not know
what a (metal) B stake is you have not fallen on one....this created a few
minor dramas...stitches etc etc and now I once again joyfully carrying a big
stick again....Thank you Teddy Rooseveldt.
But I am recovering.......only I have to cross my legs that I do not get
Tetanus...My doctor and I are not too keen on me having it a long and boring
story.....
That is about it....fine am here after another B cold morning's start.

From mlk at activ8.net.au  Fri Jul 17 17:09:09 2009
From: mlk at activ8.net.au (Michael Kennedy)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 17:09:09 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] 2010 Tolkien Seminar
In-Reply-To: <ecc18000907161617q2295d147xaac6684091501bdf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B72EC27E4105414CBEC8422968F89742@Michael>

Jeff,

Oh dear! The dreaded garden wound. It must have been nasty enough to warrant
stitches but knowing how stoic you are, no doubt you will take to using a
stick very well. Keep the wound clean Jeff and if you can get hold of some
kingsfoil then do so, but perhaps you should send someone else out into the
garden to procure it.

I haven't even thought about who would be compere but I'm happy to do so
Jeff. 

I have nearly finished putting together a Call for Papers which I will send
to you soon for review. 

Jeff, can I confirm the date? I know we settled on Saturday the 28th August,
2010, but I notice that one of your recent e-mails has the date of the 27th
August, which is a Friday. Just want to be sure. To be sure.

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: list-bounces at tolharndor.org [mailto:list-
> bounces at tolharndor.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Lynch
> Sent: Friday, 17 July 2009 9:17 AM
> To: Tol Harndor - Australian Tolkien Society
> Subject: Re: [TolHarndor] 2010 Tolkien Seminar
> 
> Michael mainly,
> A premature request re our  con.
> I would feel better M if you would 'compere the do...in spite
> of former
> claims......by moi...maybe I might do something similar to the
> last....do a
> rapid intro to the do.....this time I feel that should pick on
> Ted rather
> than you.
> I would introduce folks to the artwork done by Tony.....who is
> to be 'our
> resident artist'
> and try tro flog the work....if that's what the man wants to
> do.....the rest
> would (I suppose) be my own recipe.
> jeff
> PS I have wounded myself out in my garden....no not wounded by
> approaching
> spring tho' that is often the most horrible of
> wounds.....'April is the
> cruellest month'
> 
> But I had a fall.....and....fell onto a metal B stake....if you
> do not know
> what a (metal) B stake is you have not fallen on one....this
> created a few
> minor dramas...stitches etc etc and now I once again joyfully
> carrying a big
> stick again....Thank you Teddy Rooseveldt.
> But I am recovering.......only I have to cross my legs that I
> do not get
> Tetanus...My doctor and I are not too keen on me having it a
> long and boring
> story.....
> That is about it....fine am here after another B cold morning's
> start.
> _______________________________________________
> List mailing list
> List at tolharndor.org
> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org





From krenon at y7mail.com  Fri Jul 17 18:16:22 2009
From: krenon at y7mail.com (Edwin Scribner)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 01:16:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TolHarndor] 2010 Tolkien Seminar
In-Reply-To: <B72EC27E4105414CBEC8422968F89742@Michael>
Message-ID: <572395.2779.qm@web110210.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Not quite sure what Jeff is getting at but suffice to say I don't want to compere. I can't tell jokes to save my life. However I do intend to submit a paper.

Jeff, look after yourself. Peter Cundall never speared himself - on TV anyway - and he's older than you.

--- On Fri, 17/7/09, Michael Kennedy <mlk at activ8.net.au> wrote:

Jeff,

Oh dear! The dreaded garden wound. It must have been nasty enough to warrant
stitches but knowing how stoic you are, no doubt you will take to using a
stick very well. Keep the wound clean Jeff and if you can get hold of some
kingsfoil then do so, but perhaps you should send someone else out into the
garden to procure it.

I haven't even thought about who would be compere but I'm happy to do so
Jeff. 

> Michael mainly,
> A premature request re our? con.
> I would feel better M if you would 'compere the do...in spite
> of former
> claims......by moi...maybe I might do something similar to the
> last....do a
> rapid intro to the do.....this time I feel that should pick on
> Ted rather
> than you.




      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail

From mlk at activ8.net.au  Fri Jul 17 19:19:02 2009
From: mlk at activ8.net.au (Michael Kennedy)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 19:19:02 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] Tolkien Seminar (Call for Papers)
In-Reply-To: <ecc18000907121644l63bf7b5dx140e6d84a5bcacfd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9D5CAEEDD0584F479F18D8A8EFDB6E75@Michael>

Hi All,

This is a first draft that I'd love some feedback on. Nothing, besides the
general theme, is set in stone. These are the points I'm interested in:

1) The title - are we all happy with this?

2) I'd like to lead off with the SOED definition of 'Odyssey' as well as
probably just one quote from Tolkien that relates to odysseys or journeys. I
have printed three that I can think of, but no doubt there are others. I
have a preference out of the three but I won't bias the choice by telling
you. Let me know your preference.

3) Like the previous seminar I am adding some ideas for consideration. If
the ones listed need rewording or perhaps you have other general topics that
could be added then let me know.

4) Ted - I was thinking of adding a PS at the bottom mentioning the fact
that the SF convention in Melbourne is on just after this. It may be useful
to add this. What do you think?

Okay. That's all for now!

Thanks
Michael

From krenon at y7mail.com  Fri Jul 17 20:27:12 2009
From: krenon at y7mail.com (Edwin Scribner)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 03:27:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TolHarndor] Tolkien Seminar (Call for Papers)
In-Reply-To: <9D5CAEEDD0584F479F18D8A8EFDB6E75@Michael>
Message-ID: <709312.30758.qm@web110214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hi Michael.

I didn't get an attachment. Was there meant to be one?

Without the draft of which you speak, I can't respond to any of the points in your letter, except the one regarding Aussiecon 4, the Worldcon in Melbourne, 2-6 September. I definitely think you should make mention of this, and preferably not just as a PS, because you may get the attention of people coming to Aussiecon and they might decide to also come to your seminar (as opposed to people coming to your seminar who might also decide to go to Aussiecon). Aussiecon's url is http://www.aussiecon4.org.au - see also the Australian Science Fiction Bullsheet - http://www.bullsheet.sf.org.au

--- On Fri, 17/7/09, Michael Kennedy <mlk at activ8.net.au> wrote:

This is a first draft that I'd love some feedback on. Nothing, besides the
general theme, is set in stone. These are the points I'm interested in:

1) The title - are we all happy with this?

2) I'd like to lead off with the SOED definition of 'Odyssey' as well as
probably just one quote from Tolkien that relates to odysseys or journeys. I
have printed three that I can think of, but no doubt there are others. I
have a preference out of the three but I won't bias the choice by telling
you. Let me know your preference.

3) Like the previous seminar I am adding some ideas for consideration. If
the ones listed need rewording or perhaps you have other general topics that
could be added then let me know.

4) Ted - I was thinking of adding a PS at the bottom mentioning the fact
that the SF convention in Melbourne is on just after this. It may be useful
to add this. What do you think?

Okay. That's all for now!

Thanks
Michael
Hi All,

-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
List mailing list
List at tolharndor.org
http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail

From dragon at roots-boots.net  Fri Jul 17 20:57:43 2009
From: dragon at roots-boots.net (Marayong)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 20:57:43 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] Tolkien Seminar (Call for Papers)
In-Reply-To: <709312.30758.qm@web110214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <709312.30758.qm@web110214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4A605927.2010201@roots-boots.net>

I didn't get one either????

The only filter on the list is one to block anything over 200K in size.

cheers,
David

Edwin Scribner wrote:
> Hi Michael.
> 
> I didn't get an attachment. Was there meant to be one?
> 
> Without the draft of which you speak, I can't respond to any of the points in your letter, except the one regarding Aussiecon 4, the Worldcon in Melbourne, 2-6 September. I definitely think you should make mention of this, and preferably not just as a PS, because you may get the attention of people coming to Aussiecon and they might decide to also come to your seminar (as opposed to people coming to your seminar who might also decide to go to Aussiecon). Aussiecon's url is http://www.aussiecon4.org.au - see also the Australian Science Fiction Bullsheet - http://www.bullsheet.sf.org.au
> 
> --- On Fri, 17/7/09, Michael Kennedy <mlk at activ8.net.au> wrote:
> 
> This is a first draft that I'd love some feedback on. Nothing, besides the
> general theme, is set in stone. These are the points I'm interested in:
> 
> 1) The title - are we all happy with this?
> 
> 2) I'd like to lead off with the SOED definition of 'Odyssey' as well as
> probably just one quote from Tolkien that relates to odysseys or journeys. I
> have printed three that I can think of, but no doubt there are others. I
> have a preference out of the three but I won't bias the choice by telling
> you. Let me know your preference.
> 
> 3) Like the previous seminar I am adding some ideas for consideration. If
> the ones listed need rewording or perhaps you have other general topics that
> could be added then let me know.
> 
> 4) Ted - I was thinking of adding a PS at the bottom mentioning the fact
> that the SF convention in Melbourne is on just after this. It may be useful
> to add this. What do you think?
> 
> Okay. That's all for now!
> 
> Thanks
> Michael
> Hi All,
> 
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> 
> _______________________________________________
> List mailing list
> List at tolharndor.org
> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
> 
> 
> 
>       ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
> Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail
> _______________________________________________
> List mailing list
> List at tolharndor.org
> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
> 

-- 
Line dancing, Genealogy, Travel, Photography, Local history & more!
      http://roots-boots.net     mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net
The greatest tragedy that could overcome a country would be for it
  to fight a successful war in defence of liberty and to lose its
           own liberty in the process" - Robert Menzies


From mlk at activ8.net.au  Fri Jul 17 22:25:18 2009
From: mlk at activ8.net.au (Michael Kennedy)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 22:25:18 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] Tolkien Seminar (Call for Papers)
In-Reply-To: <4A605927.2010201@roots-boots.net>
Message-ID: <04D51A7EC7334AA38A176E391228D368@Michael>

That's odd as I had attached the file and it was only 64kb. I've attached it
again but just in case it doesn't go through I've pasted the text below.

Ted - keep in mind that this document is just the Call for Papers. There
will be a more general announcement of the Seminar published which is where
I would think a note about Aussiecon would be more applicable. Perhaps a
couple of versions (one for Amon hen, another for elsewhere) may be the way
to go.  

As you suggest I think it would be more likely that it will be people
attending Aussiecon already who may decide to attend the Seminar too.

Jeff - remind me. How many bodies can we comfortably fit into your hall?


Michael


Tolkien Seminar 
The Tolkien Society & Tol Harndor
Saturday, 28th August 2010
Melbourne, Australia

Tolkien's Odysseys - Middle-earth and Beyond

Call for Papers

ODYSSEY: A long series of wanderings, a long adventurous journey; fig. an
extended process of development or change. (OED)


"To a story-teller a journey is a marvellous device."  Tolkien Letters 183

OR

"On a journey of a length sufficient to provide the untoward in any degree
from discomfort to fear the change in companions well-known in 'ordinary
life' (and in oneself) is often startling" Tolkien Letters 183

OR

"You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no
knowing where you might be swept off to."  (Frodo quoting Bilbo - Lord of
the Rings)

This significant annual event in the Tolkien calendar is being held in
Australia for the second time. The Tolkien Seminar will be held in Melbourne
and we invite people from here and abroad with an interest in Tolkien to
submit a paper for consideration. 

The theme of odysseys is wide-ranging in scope and can cover not only
various aspects of odysseys in the works of Tolkien but also the trials and
tribulations of Tolkien's own life in his quest to produce his own
mythology.

Some potential topics for consideration might be:

.	The odysseys or journeys of individual characters or groups 
.	The physical and spiritual development of characters from all of
Tolkien's works
.	Plot development in The Lord of The Rings
.	The use of 'journey' as a plot device
.	Change for good and change for evil
.	Odyssey - predestination and free choice
.	J.R.R. Tolkien' own personal odyssey in regards to not only the
development of his stories, but also his life
.	Homer's Odyssey - the parallels

Papers should be either 20 or 45 minutes long to fit into half-hour or hour
slots with time for questions/discussion. There may also be scope to
accommodate a number of short 10 minute presentations. Please send the
title, a short summary/abstract and the intended length to the Seminar
organiser: Michael Kennedy at mlk at activ8.net.au




> -----Original Message-----
> From: list-bounces at tolharndor.org [mailto:list-
> bounces at tolharndor.org] On Behalf Of Marayong
> Sent: Friday, 17 July 2009 8:58 PM
> To: Tol Harndor - Australian Tolkien Society
> Subject: Re: [TolHarndor] Tolkien Seminar (Call for Papers)
> 
> I didn't get one either????
> 
> The only filter on the list is one to block anything over 200K
> in size.
> 
> cheers,
> David
> 
> Edwin Scribner wrote:
> > Hi Michael.
> >
> > I didn't get an attachment. Was there meant to be one?
> >
> > Without the draft of which you speak, I can't respond to any
> of the points in your letter, except the one regarding
> Aussiecon 4, the Worldcon in Melbourne, 2-6 September. I
> definitely think you should make mention of this, and
> preferably not just as a PS, because you may get the attention
> of people coming to Aussiecon and they might decide to also
> come to your seminar (as opposed to people coming to your
> seminar who might also decide to go to Aussiecon). Aussiecon's
> url is http://www.aussiecon4.org.au - see also the Australian
> Science Fiction Bullsheet - http://www.bullsheet.sf.org.au
> >
> > --- On Fri, 17/7/09, Michael Kennedy <mlk at activ8.net.au>
> wrote:
> >
> > This is a first draft that I'd love some feedback on. Nothing,
> besides the
> > general theme, is set in stone. These are the points I'm
> interested in:
> >
> > 1) The title - are we all happy with this?
> >
> > 2) I'd like to lead off with the SOED definition of 'Odyssey'
> as well as
> > probably just one quote from Tolkien that relates to odysseys
> or journeys. I
> > have printed three that I can think of, but no doubt there
> are others. I
> > have a preference out of the three but I won't bias the
> choice by telling
> > you. Let me know your preference.
> >
> > 3) Like the previous seminar I am adding some ideas for
> consideration. If
> > the ones listed need rewording or perhaps you have other
> general topics that
> > could be added then let me know.
> >
> > 4) Ted - I was thinking of adding a PS at the bottom
> mentioning the fact
> > that the SF convention in Melbourne is on just after this. It
> may be useful
> > to add this. What do you think?
> >
> > Okay. That's all for now!
> >
> > Thanks
> > Michael
> > Hi All,
> >
> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > List mailing list
> > List at tolharndor.org
> > http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________________________
> _____________________
> > Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
> > Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail
> > _______________________________________________
> > List mailing list
> > List at tolharndor.org
> > http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
> >
> 
> --
> Line dancing, Genealogy, Travel, Photography, Local history &
> more!
>       http://roots-boots.net     mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net
> The greatest tragedy that could overcome a country would be for
> it
>   to fight a successful war in defence of liberty and to lose
> its
>            own liberty in the process" - Robert Menzies
> 
> _______________________________________________
> List mailing list
> List at tolharndor.org
> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
 
-------------- next part --------------
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From dragon at roots-boots.net  Fri Jul 17 22:45:46 2009
From: dragon at roots-boots.net (Marayong)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 22:45:46 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] Tolkien Seminar (Call for Papers)
In-Reply-To: <04D51A7EC7334AA38A176E391228D368@Michael>
References: <04D51A7EC7334AA38A176E391228D368@Michael>
Message-ID: <4A60727A.9070400@roots-boots.net>

It came thru' this time. Chalk it up to an email gremlin.

cheers,
David

Michael Kennedy wrote:
> That's odd as I had attached the file and it was only 64kb. I've attached it
> again but just in case it doesn't go through I've pasted the text below.
> 
> Ted - keep in mind that this document is just the Call for Papers. There
> will be a more general announcement of the Seminar published which is where
> I would think a note about Aussiecon would be more applicable. Perhaps a
> couple of versions (one for Amon hen, another for elsewhere) may be the way
> to go.  
> 
> As you suggest I think it would be more likely that it will be people
> attending Aussiecon already who may decide to attend the Seminar too.
> 
> Jeff - remind me. How many bodies can we comfortably fit into your hall?
> 
> 
> Michael
> 
> 
> Tolkien Seminar 
> The Tolkien Society & Tol Harndor
> Saturday, 28th August 2010
> Melbourne, Australia
> 
> Tolkien's Odysseys - Middle-earth and Beyond
> 
> Call for Papers
> 
> ODYSSEY: A long series of wanderings, a long adventurous journey; fig. an
> extended process of development or change. (OED)
> 
> 
> "To a story-teller a journey is a marvellous device."  Tolkien Letters 183
> 
> OR
> 
> "On a journey of a length sufficient to provide the untoward in any degree
> from discomfort to fear the change in companions well-known in 'ordinary
> life' (and in oneself) is often startling" Tolkien Letters 183
> 
> OR
> 
> "You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no
> knowing where you might be swept off to."  (Frodo quoting Bilbo - Lord of
> the Rings)
> 
> This significant annual event in the Tolkien calendar is being held in
> Australia for the second time. The Tolkien Seminar will be held in Melbourne
> and we invite people from here and abroad with an interest in Tolkien to
> submit a paper for consideration. 
> 
> The theme of odysseys is wide-ranging in scope and can cover not only
> various aspects of odysseys in the works of Tolkien but also the trials and
> tribulations of Tolkien's own life in his quest to produce his own
> mythology.
> 
> Some potential topics for consideration might be:
> 
> .	The odysseys or journeys of individual characters or groups 
> .	The physical and spiritual development of characters from all of
> Tolkien's works
> .	Plot development in The Lord of The Rings
> .	The use of 'journey' as a plot device
> .	Change for good and change for evil
> .	Odyssey - predestination and free choice
> .	J.R.R. Tolkien' own personal odyssey in regards to not only the
> development of his stories, but also his life
> .	Homer's Odyssey - the parallels
> 
> Papers should be either 20 or 45 minutes long to fit into half-hour or hour
> slots with time for questions/discussion. There may also be scope to
> accommodate a number of short 10 minute presentations. Please send the
> title, a short summary/abstract and the intended length to the Seminar
> organiser: Michael Kennedy at mlk at activ8.net.au
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: list-bounces at tolharndor.org [mailto:list-
>> bounces at tolharndor.org] On Behalf Of Marayong
>> Sent: Friday, 17 July 2009 8:58 PM
>> To: Tol Harndor - Australian Tolkien Society
>> Subject: Re: [TolHarndor] Tolkien Seminar (Call for Papers)
>>
>> I didn't get one either????
>>
>> The only filter on the list is one to block anything over 200K
>> in size.
>>
>> cheers,
>> David
>>
>> Edwin Scribner wrote:
>>> Hi Michael.
>>>
>>> I didn't get an attachment. Was there meant to be one?
>>>
>>> Without the draft of which you speak, I can't respond to any
>> of the points in your letter, except the one regarding
>> Aussiecon 4, the Worldcon in Melbourne, 2-6 September. I
>> definitely think you should make mention of this, and
>> preferably not just as a PS, because you may get the attention
>> of people coming to Aussiecon and they might decide to also
>> come to your seminar (as opposed to people coming to your
>> seminar who might also decide to go to Aussiecon). Aussiecon's
>> url is http://www.aussiecon4.org.au - see also the Australian
>> Science Fiction Bullsheet - http://www.bullsheet.sf.org.au
>>> --- On Fri, 17/7/09, Michael Kennedy <mlk at activ8.net.au>
>> wrote:
>>> This is a first draft that I'd love some feedback on. Nothing,
>> besides the
>>> general theme, is set in stone. These are the points I'm
>> interested in:
>>> 1) The title - are we all happy with this?
>>>
>>> 2) I'd like to lead off with the SOED definition of 'Odyssey'
>> as well as
>>> probably just one quote from Tolkien that relates to odysseys
>> or journeys. I
>>> have printed three that I can think of, but no doubt there
>> are others. I
>>> have a preference out of the three but I won't bias the
>> choice by telling
>>> you. Let me know your preference.
>>>
>>> 3) Like the previous seminar I am adding some ideas for
>> consideration. If
>>> the ones listed need rewording or perhaps you have other
>> general topics that
>>> could be added then let me know.
>>>
>>> 4) Ted - I was thinking of adding a PS at the bottom
>> mentioning the fact
>>> that the SF convention in Melbourne is on just after this. It
>> may be useful
>>> to add this. What do you think?
>>>
>>> Okay. That's all for now!
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Michael
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> List mailing list
>>> List at tolharndor.org
>>> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________________________
>> _____________________
>>> Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
>>> Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> List mailing list
>>> List at tolharndor.org
>>> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
>>>
>> --
>> Line dancing, Genealogy, Travel, Photography, Local history &
>> more!
>>       http://roots-boots.net     mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net
>> The greatest tragedy that could overcome a country would be for
>> it
>>   to fight a successful war in defence of liberty and to lose
>> its
>>            own liberty in the process" - Robert Menzies
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> List mailing list
>> List at tolharndor.org
>> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
>  
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> List mailing list
> List at tolharndor.org
> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org

-- 
Line dancing, Genealogy, Travel, Photography, Local history & more!
      http://roots-boots.net     mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net
The greatest tragedy that could overcome a country would be for it
  to fight a successful war in defence of liberty and to lose its
           own liberty in the process" - Robert Menzies


From jeffreyblynch at gmail.com  Sat Jul 18 09:21:59 2009
From: jeffreyblynch at gmail.com (Jeff Lynch)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 09:21:59 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] Tolkien Seminar (Call for Papers)
In-Reply-To: <9D5CAEEDD0584F479F18D8A8EFDB6E75@Michael>
References: <ecc18000907121644l63bf7b5dx140e6d84a5bcacfd@mail.gmail.com>
	<9D5CAEEDD0584F479F18D8A8EFDB6E75@Michael>
Message-ID: <ecc18000907171621v1628451cjedab2b0ecc854c66@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Michael,
Re the hall numbers..............mmmm perhaps a comfortable 40.....45
Or at some rendering of the space  half a ton plus a few.

I love 'You step into the road and if you don't (Frodo) quote.it is a
ripper.
Fine day here ...I suffer from my fall and wound to the leg....the
(local) Doc's nurse just changed the dressing..............nothing like a
house olf healing is there?
jeff

From jeffreyblynch at gmail.com  Sat Jul 18 09:25:43 2009
From: jeffreyblynch at gmail.com (Jeff Lynch)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 09:25:43 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] 2010 Tolkien Seminar
In-Reply-To: <B72EC27E4105414CBEC8422968F89742@Michael>
References: <ecc18000907161617q2295d147xaac6684091501bdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<B72EC27E4105414CBEC8422968F89742@Michael>
Message-ID: <ecc18000907171625k2384be54h3138b597d48efd41@mail.gmail.com>

Moi stoic Mihkail?........o yes I remember (equal) best and fairest for
Mulwala Footy Club.........also I did marry a woman err and I was High
School teacher for (too) long!..................but most of all I sit down
and write thousands of words...there's Stoicism for ya......
jeff

From krenon at y7mail.com  Sat Jul 18 11:30:37 2009
From: krenon at y7mail.com (Edwin Scribner)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 18:30:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TolHarndor] 2010 Tolkien Seminar: comments
Message-ID: <408967.27381.qm@web110202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

For the purpose of commenting on the draft, I have marked the existing passages of draft (by paragraph) with a leading ">". My comments or suggestions for change or addition are unmarked.

>Tolkien Seminar 
>The Tolkien Society & Tol Harndor

The Tolkien Society and its Australasian smial (affiliate group) present:

Tolkien Seminar: "Tolkien's Odysseys - Middle-Earth and Beyond"

>Saturday, 28th August 2010

(venue)

>Melbourne, Australia

>Tolkien's Odysseys - Middle-earth and Beyond

(v.i.)

-----------------------------------------------------

>Call for Papers

>ODYSSEY: A long series of wanderings, a long adventurous journey; fig. an
extended process of development or change. (OED)

Literally: a
 long .....; figuratively: an extended ....

>"To a story-teller a journey is a marvellous device."? Tolkien Letters 183

>OR

>"On a journey of a length sufficient to provide the untoward in any
 degree
from discomfort to fear the change in companions well-known in 'ordinary
life' (and in oneself) is often startling" Tolkien Letters 183

>OR

>"You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no
knowing where you might be swept off to."? (Frodo quoting Bilbo - Lord of
the Rings)

For the purpose of this seminar, I like the substance of the second quote more that that of the third, but it is not expressed as clearly or concisely as the third. I put this down to the fact that Tolkien's letters were more like first draft than was the passage in LotR. Beyond that comment I won't specifically advocate either one.

>This significant annual event in the Tolkien calendar is being held in
Australia for the second time. The Tolkien Seminar will be held in Melbourne

Here you could put in "close to 'Aussiecon 4', the 68th World Science Fiction Convention, to be held in Melbourne
 from 2nd to 6th September ( http://www.aussiecon4.org.au/ )"

>and we invite people from here and abroad with an interest
 in Tolkien to
submit a paper for consideration. 

from Australia and all other countries

>The theme of odysseys is wide-ranging in scope and can cover not only
various aspects of odysseys in the works of Tolkien but also the trials and
tribulations of Tolkien's own life in his quest to produce his own
mythology.

especially his quest to write a mythology specific to Britain (not all quests succeed - this was one that didn't).

>Some potential topics for consideration might be:

> - ? The odysseys or journeys of individual characters or groups 

eg Bilbo, Frodo, Turin, Beren

>? -? The physical and spiritual development of characters from all of Tolkien's works
>? -? Plot development in The Lord of The Rings
> -?? The use of 'journey' as a plot device
> -?? Change for good and change for evil

changes for good, evil or
 both

> -?? Odyssey - predestination and free choice

(and the influences on choice)

> - ? J.R.R. Tolkien' own personal odyssey in regards to not only the development of his stories, but also his life

influences on him, especially war

> -??? Homer's Odyssey - the
 parallels

and Leopold Bloom's odyssey? - said in jest but there might be some scope.

>Papers should be either 20 or 45 minutes long to fit into half-hour or hour
slots with time for questions/discussion. There may also be scope to
accommodate a number of short 10 minute presentations. Please send the
title, a short summary/abstract and the intended length to the Seminar
organiser: Michael Kennedy at mlk at activ8.net.au

I think that, given the one day nature of the seminar, there should be only one 1-hour paper, and that should be the keynote address. The keynote address should be given by a person selected/requested to do it. Michael is the obvious bunny .. er.. person for the job. Also it would be a good idea if you could confirm the availability of 10 minute talks before the final cfp goes
 out.

Cheers

Herendil







      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail

From jeffreyblynch at gmail.com  Sun Jul 19 09:35:34 2009
From: jeffreyblynch at gmail.com (Jeff Lynch)
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 09:35:34 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] 2010 Tolkien Seminar: comments
In-Reply-To: <408967.27381.qm@web110202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <408967.27381.qm@web110202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ecc18000907181635o66c1cd57r45efb05f77ca634a@mail.gmail.com>

Ted's (one only one hour paper )idea seems sensible
But then Ted often seems that way (Hum)
I am working on 27 versus 28 Michael....soon you will hear of it!
Jeff
PS fine day and I am still sore (not at you or any Tol Harndors)...my leg!


On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 11:30 AM, Edwin Scribner <krenon at y7mail.com> wrote:

> For the purpose of commenting on the draft, I have marked the existing
> passages of draft (by paragraph) with a leading ">". My comments or
> suggestions for change or addition are unmarked.
>
> >Tolkien Seminar
> >The Tolkien Society & Tol Harndor
>
> The Tolkien Society and its Australasian smial (affiliate group) present:
>
> Tolkien Seminar: "Tolkien's Odysseys - Middle-Earth and Beyond"
>
> >Saturday, 28th August 2010
>
> (venue)
>
> >Melbourne, Australia
>
> >Tolkien's Odysseys - Middle-earth and Beyond
>
> (v.i.)
>
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
> >Call for Papers
>
> >ODYSSEY: A long series of wanderings, a long adventurous journey; fig. an
> extended process of development or change. (OED)
>
> Literally: a
>  long .....; figuratively: an extended ....
>
> >"To a story-teller a journey is a marvellous device."  Tolkien Letters 183
>
> >OR
>
> >"On a journey of a length sufficient to provide the untoward in any
>  degree
> from discomfort to fear the change in companions well-known in 'ordinary
> life' (and in oneself) is often startling" Tolkien Letters 183
>
> >OR
>
> >"You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no
> knowing where you might be swept off to."  (Frodo quoting Bilbo - Lord of
> the Rings)
>
> For the purpose of this seminar, I like the substance of the second quote
> more that that of the third, but it is not expressed as clearly or concisely
> as the third. I put this down to the fact that Tolkien's letters were more
> like first draft than was the passage in LotR. Beyond that comment I won't
> specifically advocate either one.
>
> >This significant annual event in the Tolkien calendar is being held in
> Australia for the second time. The Tolkien Seminar will be held in
> Melbourne
>
> Here you could put in "close to 'Aussiecon 4', the 68th World Science
> Fiction Convention, to be held in Melbourne
>  from 2nd to 6th September ( http://www.aussiecon4.org.au/ )"
>
> >and we invite people from here and abroad with an interest
>  in Tolkien to
> submit a paper for consideration.
>
> from Australia and all other countries
>
> >The theme of odysseys is wide-ranging in scope and can cover not only
> various aspects of odysseys in the works of Tolkien but also the trials and
> tribulations of Tolkien's own life in his quest to produce his own
> mythology.
>
> especially his quest to write a mythology specific to Britain (not all
> quests succeed - this was one that didn't).
>
> >Some potential topics for consideration might be:
>
> > -   The odysseys or journeys of individual characters or groups
>
> eg Bilbo, Frodo, Turin, Beren
>
> >  -  The physical and spiritual development of characters from all of
> Tolkien's works
> >  -  Plot development in The Lord of The Rings
> > -   The use of 'journey' as a plot device
> > -   Change for good and change for evil
>
> changes for good, evil or
>  both
>
> > -   Odyssey - predestination and free choice
>
> (and the influences on choice)
>
> > -   J.R.R. Tolkien' own personal odyssey in regards to not only the
> development of his stories, but also his life
>
> influences on him, especially war
>
> > -    Homer's Odyssey - the
>  parallels
>
> and Leopold Bloom's odyssey? - said in jest but there might be some scope.
>
> >Papers should be either 20 or 45 minutes long to fit into half-hour or
> hour
> slots with time for questions/discussion. There may also be scope to
> accommodate a number of short 10 minute presentations. Please send the
> title, a short summary/abstract and the intended length to the Seminar
> organiser: Michael Kennedy at mlk at activ8.net.au
>
> I think that, given the one day nature of the seminar, there should be only
> one 1-hour paper, and that should be the keynote address. The keynote
> address should be given by a person selected/requested to do it. Michael is
> the obvious bunny .. er.. person for the job. Also it would be a good idea
> if you could confirm the availability of 10 minute talks before the final
> cfp goes
>  out.
>
> Cheers
>
> Herendil
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
> Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail
> _______________________________________________
> List mailing list
> List at tolharndor.org
> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
>

From krenon at y7mail.com  Sun Jul 19 12:52:43 2009
From: krenon at y7mail.com (Edwin Scribner)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 19:52:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TolHarndor] 2010 Tolkien Seminar: comments
Message-ID: <940190.53638.qm@web110211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>



Flattery will get you nowhere, Jeff. You can hum it, sing it or play it on the comb kazoo.

27 versus 28? The 27th is a Friday. I don't think that would be popular. Or are you talking about something else?

Sorry to hear about the injured leg. Hope it's well on the mend.

- Ted

--- On Sun, 19/7/09, Jeff Lynch <jeffreyblynch at gmail.com> wrote:


Ted's (one only one hour paper )idea seems sensible
But then Ted often seems that way (Hum)
I am working on 27 versus 28 Michael....soon you will hear of it!
Jeff
PS fine day and I am still sore (not at you or any Tol Harndors)...my leg!






      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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From mlk at activ8.net.au  Mon Jul 20 09:25:45 2009
From: mlk at activ8.net.au (Michael Kennedy)
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 09:25:45 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] 2010 Tolkien Seminar: comments
In-Reply-To: <408967.27381.qm@web110202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0AEBCF413F5144FF91CD3BA6AEDFB462@Michael>

Thanks Ted,

I will make some changes while I'm in NZ this week. 

I've just finished reading Tolkien's Sigurd and Gudrun. Utterly compelling!
I am being interviewed next week for it by ABC radio so I better have
something intelligible to say about it, however. :-)

Michael

 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: list-bounces at tolharndor.org [mailto:list-
> bounces at tolharndor.org] On Behalf Of Edwin Scribner
> Sent: Saturday, 18 July 2009 11:31 AM
> To: Tol Harndor - Australian Tolkien Society
> Subject: Re: [TolHarndor] 2010 Tolkien Seminar: comments
> 
> For the purpose of commenting on the draft, I have marked the
> existing passages of draft (by paragraph) with a leading ">".
> My comments or suggestions for change or addition are unmarked.
> 
> >Tolkien Seminar
> >The Tolkien Society & Tol Harndor
> 
> The Tolkien Society and its Australasian smial (affiliate group)
> present:
> 
> Tolkien Seminar: "Tolkien's Odysseys - Middle-Earth and Beyond"
> 
> >Saturday, 28th August 2010
> 
> (venue)
> 
> >Melbourne, Australia
> 
> >Tolkien's Odysseys - Middle-earth and Beyond
> 
> (v.i.)
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------
> 
> >Call for Papers
> 
> >ODYSSEY: A long series of wanderings, a long adventurous
> journey; fig. an
> extended process of development or change. (OED)
> 
> Literally: a
>  long .....; figuratively: an extended ....
> 
> >"To a story-teller a journey is a marvellous device."? Tolkien
> Letters 183
> 
> >OR
> 
> >"On a journey of a length sufficient to provide the untoward
> in any
>  degree
> from discomfort to fear the change in companions well-known in
> 'ordinary
> life' (and in oneself) is often startling" Tolkien Letters 183
> 
> >OR
> 
> >"You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet,
> there is no
> knowing where you might be swept off to."? (Frodo quoting Bilbo
> - Lord of
> the Rings)
> 
> For the purpose of this seminar, I like the substance of the
> second quote more that that of the third, but it is not
> expressed as clearly or concisely as the third. I put this down
> to the fact that Tolkien's letters were more like first draft
> than was the passage in LotR. Beyond that comment I won't
> specifically advocate either one.
> 
> >This significant annual event in the Tolkien calendar is being
> held in
> Australia for the second time. The Tolkien Seminar will be held
> in Melbourne
> 
> Here you could put in "close to 'Aussiecon 4', the 68th World
> Science Fiction Convention, to be held in Melbourne
>  from 2nd to 6th September ( http://www.aussiecon4.org.au/ )"
> 
> >and we invite people from here and abroad with an interest
>  in Tolkien to
> submit a paper for consideration.
> 
> from Australia and all other countries
> 
> >The theme of odysseys is wide-ranging in scope and can cover
> not only
> various aspects of odysseys in the works of Tolkien but also
> the trials and
> tribulations of Tolkien's own life in his quest to produce his
> own
> mythology.
> 
> especially his quest to write a mythology specific to Britain
> (not all quests succeed - this was one that didn't).
> 
> >Some potential topics for consideration might be:
> 
> > - ? The odysseys or journeys of individual characters or
> groups
> 
> eg Bilbo, Frodo, Turin, Beren
> 
> >? -? The physical and spiritual development of characters from
> all of Tolkien's works
> >? -? Plot development in The Lord of The Rings
> > -?? The use of 'journey' as a plot device
> > -?? Change for good and change for evil
> 
> changes for good, evil or
>  both
> 
> > -?? Odyssey - predestination and free choice
> 
> (and the influences on choice)
> 
> > - ? J.R.R. Tolkien' own personal odyssey in regards to not
> only the development of his stories, but also his life
> 
> influences on him, especially war
> 
> > -??? Homer's Odyssey - the
>  parallels
> 
> and Leopold Bloom's odyssey? - said in jest but there might be
> some scope.
> 
> >Papers should be either 20 or 45 minutes long to fit into
> half-hour or hour
> slots with time for questions/discussion. There may also be
> scope to
> accommodate a number of short 10 minute presentations. Please
> send the
> title, a short summary/abstract and the intended length to the
> Seminar
> organiser: Michael Kennedy at mlk at activ8.net.au
> 
> I think that, given the one day nature of the seminar, there
> should be only one 1-hour paper, and that should be the keynote
> address. The keynote address should be given by a person
> selected/requested to do it. Michael is the obvious bunny ..
> er.. person for the job. Also it would be a good idea if you
> could confirm the availability of 10 minute talks before the
> final cfp goes
>  out.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Herendil
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________________________
> _____________________
> Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
> Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail
> _______________________________________________
> List mailing list
> List at tolharndor.org
> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org





From mlk at activ8.net.au  Mon Jul 20 09:26:54 2009
From: mlk at activ8.net.au (Michael Kennedy)
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 09:26:54 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] Tolkien Seminar (Call for Papers)
In-Reply-To: <ecc18000907171621v1628451cjedab2b0ecc854c66@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E01D8A29C2EE4457934A99F103124C9D@Michael>

Thanks Jeff. Good solid numbers! 

I hope the leg is coming along okay.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: list-bounces at tolharndor.org [mailto:list-
> bounces at tolharndor.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Lynch
> Sent: Saturday, 18 July 2009 9:22 AM
> To: Tol Harndor - Australian Tolkien Society
> Subject: Re: [TolHarndor] Tolkien Seminar (Call for Papers)
> 
> Hi Michael,
> Re the hall numbers..............mmmm perhaps a comfortable
> 40.....45
> Or at some rendering of the space  half a ton plus a few.
> 
> I love 'You step into the road and if you don't (Frodo)
> quote.it is a
> ripper.
> Fine day here ...I suffer from my fall and wound to the
> leg....the
> (local) Doc's nurse just changed the
> dressing..............nothing like a
> house olf healing is there?
> jeff
> _______________________________________________
> List mailing list
> List at tolharndor.org
> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org





From jeffreyblynch at gmail.com  Mon Jul 20 10:19:05 2009
From: jeffreyblynch at gmail.com (Jeff Lynch)
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 10:19:05 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] Tolkien Seminar (Call for Papers)
In-Reply-To: <E01D8A29C2EE4457934A99F103124C9D@Michael>
References: <ecc18000907171621v1628451cjedab2b0ecc854c66@mail.gmail.com>
	<E01D8A29C2EE4457934A99F103124C9D@Michael>
Message-ID: <ecc18000907191719w37511732u701e73df5cbd3dcd@mail.gmail.com>

Um leg is looking a wee bit better ...so sayeth the man with the oath...or
should that be of the oath
MIFF (Film festival stast late this week.....I allas goes...mit eine mini
pass....I got that again



Did I say the first film that I  hope to see is Alphaville..dir by Jean luc
Goddard.I always a toff you see..you know that too.

 For Ted.......The fox (le reynard) says to the crow after the fact......
'Apprenez que tous flatterez'....err or something like....this is the fable
of Le Corbeaux et Le Reynard. par Jean Richleau withal ...seeing the cro(up
a tree) has cheese in his mouth the fox says...vous etes le premiere oiseau
dans le bois ...'Flattered'..... the crow opens son bec et laisssez tumble
ses fromage (cheese) .......ie opens his beak and lets fall the
cheese.............the fox eats cheese QED.
On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 9:26 AM, Michael Kennedy <mlk at activ8.net.au> wrote:

> Thanks Jeff. Good solid numbers!
>
> I hope the leg is coming along okay.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: list-bounces at tolharndor.org [mailto:list-
> > bounces at tolharndor.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Lynch
> > Sent: Saturday, 18 July 2009 9:22 AM
> > To: Tol Harndor - Australian Tolkien Society
> > Subject: Re: [TolHarndor] Tolkien Seminar (Call for Papers)
> >
>  > Hi Michael,
> > Re the hall numbers..............mmmm perhaps a comfortable
> > 40.....45
> > Or at some rendering of the space  half a ton plus a few.
> >
> > I love 'You step into the road and if you don't (Frodo)
> > quote.it is a
> > ripper.
> > Fine day here ...I suffer from my fall and wound to the
> > leg....the
> > (local) Doc's nurse just changed the
> > dressing..............nothing like a
> > house olf healing is there?
> > jeff
>  > _______________________________________________
> > List mailing list
> > List at tolharndor.org
> > http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List mailing list
> List at tolharndor.org
> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
>

From krenon at y7mail.com  Mon Jul 20 11:21:08 2009
From: krenon at y7mail.com (Edwin Scribner)
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 18:21:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TolHarndor] Tolkien Seminar (Call for Papers)
In-Reply-To: <ecc18000907191719w37511732u701e73df5cbd3dcd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <725691.72474.qm@web110209.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hi Jeff,

Glad to read that your leg is a bit better - I hope the trend keeps up.

So - you like being MIFFed?

Is it all French? Or do you just like talking Frog?

For me - the fox and the crow? Frankly I suspect that a crow could outwit a fox, nor do I think that either would be beguiled by flattery. Curious: I only did two years of french at school and that was over 50 years ago but - isn't crow "corbeau" singular and "corbeaux" plural? Likewise isn't fox "renard" (no y)?

The line of flattery I recognise: "der erste Vogel in den Wald". The second last word may be wrong.

Cheers

Eadwine
(I'm feeling a bit Saxon today)

--- On Mon, 20/7/09, Jeff Lynch <jeffreyblynch at gmail.com> wrote:

Um leg is looking a wee bit better ...so sayeth the man with the oath...or
should that be of the oath
MIFF (Film festival stast late this week.....I allas goes...mit eine mini
pass....I got that again



Did I say the first film that I? hope to see is Alphaville..dir by Jean luc
Goddard.I always a toff you see..you know that too.

 For Ted.......The fox (le reynard) says to the crow after the fact......
'Apprenez que tous flatterez'....err or something like....this is the fable
of Le Corbeaux et Le Reynard. par Jean Richleau withal ...seeing the cro(up
a tree) has cheese in his mouth the fox says...vous etes le premiere oiseau
dans le bois ...'Flattered'..... the crow opens son bec et laisssez tumble
ses fromage (cheese) .......ie opens his beak and lets fall the
cheese.............the fox eats cheese QED.




      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail

From jeffreyblynch at gmail.com  Tue Jul 21 09:18:37 2009
From: jeffreyblynch at gmail.com (Jeff Lynch)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 09:18:37 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] Tolkien Seminar (Call for Papers)
In-Reply-To: <725691.72474.qm@web110209.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <ecc18000907191719w37511732u701e73df5cbd3dcd@mail.gmail.com>
	<725691.72474.qm@web110209.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ecc18000907201618q701c8bf3t53d82ef600e6d4d@mail.gmail.com>

To (mainly) saxy Ted,
Yep your french was right und I think your german was likely v near correct
as well..what talent I see before in TH!
I showered  tis morn(big move) and then changed my dressing myself..fine
morn.........no Ted ....the MIFF is not all french. et it stands for
Melbourne Film Festival.....or did I get that wrong.MIFF is composed with
(or by) films from all over the world....Israeli, Turkish, German, French,
Aust...as in Australian etc maybe an odd mongolian.I did not mean that
really...Hong Kong, Chinese .and all...............
I've been going since say....errr 1977 ( peutetre) sorry.... perhaps.......
love jeff



On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Edwin Scribner <krenon at y7mail.com> wrote:

> Hi Jeff,
>
> Glad to read that your leg is a bit better - I hope the trend keeps up.
>
> So - you like being MIFFed?
>
> Is it all French? Or do you just like talking Frog?
>
> For me - the fox and the crow? Frankly I suspect that a crow could outwit a
> fox, nor do I think that either would be beguiled by flattery. Curious: I
> only did two years of french at school and that was over 50 years ago but -
> isn't crow "corbeau" singular and "corbeaux" plural? Likewise isn't fox
> "renard" (no y)?
>
> The line of flattery I recognise: "der erste Vogel in den Wald". The second
> last word may be wrong.
>
> Cheers
>
> Eadwine
> (I'm feeling a bit Saxon today)
>
> --- On Mon, 20/7/09, Jeff Lynch <jeffreyblynch at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Um leg is looking a wee bit better ...so sayeth the man with the oath...or
> should that be of the oath
> MIFF (Film festival stast late this week.....I allas goes...mit eine mini
> pass....I got that again
>
>
>
> Did I say the first film that I  hope to see is Alphaville..dir by Jean luc
> Goddard.I always a toff you see..you know that too.
>
>  For Ted.......The fox (le reynard) says to the crow after the fact......
> 'Apprenez que tous flatterez'....err or something like....this is the fable
> of Le Corbeaux et Le Reynard. par Jean Richleau withal ...seeing the cro(up
> a tree) has cheese in his mouth the fox says...vous etes le premiere oiseau
> dans le bois ...'Flattered'..... the crow opens son bec et laisssez tumble
> ses fromage (cheese) .......ie opens his beak and lets fall the
> cheese.............the fox eats cheese QED.
>
>
>
>
>
>  ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
> Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail
> _______________________________________________
>  List mailing list
> List at tolharndor.org
> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
>

From krenon at y7mail.com  Tue Jul 21 18:30:32 2009
From: krenon at y7mail.com (Edwin Scribner)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 01:30:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TolHarndor] Tolkien Seminar (Call for Papers)
In-Reply-To: <ecc18000907201618q701c8bf3t53d82ef600e6d4d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <579804.63310.qm@web110214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Thanks, Jeff, but my saxy name is Eadwine. As for talent in languages - I WISH!

Still no snow here and winter is ... oh I guess we have another few months.

Cheers

Ted

--- On Tue, 21/7/09, Jeff Lynch <jeffreyblynch at gmail.com> wrote:


To (mainly) saxy Ted,
Yep your french was right und I think your german was likely v near correct
as well..what talent I see before in TH!
I showered? tis morn(big move) and then changed my dressing myself..fine
morn.........no Ted ....the MIFF is not all french. et it stands for
Melbourne Film Festival.....or did I get that wrong.MIFF is composed with
(or by) films from all over the world....Israeli, Turkish, German, French,
Aust...as in Australian etc maybe an odd mongolian.I did not mean that
really...Hong Kong, Chinese .and all...............
I've been going since say....errr 1977 ( peutetre) sorry.... perhaps.......
love jeff





      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail

From jeffreyblynch at gmail.com  Wed Jul 22 09:42:57 2009
From: jeffreyblynch at gmail.com (Jeff Lynch)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 09:42:57 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] Tolkien Seminar (Call for Papers)
In-Reply-To: <579804.63310.qm@web110214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <ecc18000907201618q701c8bf3t53d82ef600e6d4d@mail.gmail.com>
	<579804.63310.qm@web110214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ecc18000907211642tc179114j8a1fef1f6c953040@mail.gmail.com>

Snow is all on the top of the head Ted....
To Michael...........Never fear Lynch is here (family
motto)...............we have two..the other one as well.Depending on
circumstances.........Where there is women there is trouble.
Now the real message Mikhail..The 28th is the 28th and OUR room is booked
for that day (a Saturday).....Now you know that a competent person like
myself would never confess to having booked OUR room for the day before!
Would I do that?
Anyway should you have thought that likely (at all) the fact is that I went
over to OUR venue...potential venue and spoke to a competent person at the
Pascoe Vale.....The room is the room and the date the 28th is the date..what
might have occurred before is (yet) a mystery.........the 27th might have
crept around until it did in fact become another date!
After all scientists and philosophers STILL do not know what time is eh Ted?
No doubt that is ALL clear to you to you know.......we shall meet Fates and
shades willing
,at the Pascoe Vale H on the 28th of May...errr sorry August!
Fine here...a rather mild morning too.
Do not go (..............) into that good night......until....
Jeff
On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 6:30 PM, Edwin Scribner <krenon at y7mail.com> wrote:

> Thanks, Jeff, but my saxy name is Eadwine. As for talent in languages - I
> WISH!
>
> Still no snow here and winter is ... oh I guess we have another few months.
>
> Cheers
>
> Ted
>
> --- On Tue, 21/7/09, Jeff Lynch <jeffreyblynch at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> To (mainly) saxy Ted,
> Yep your french was right und I think your german was likely v near correct
> as well..what talent I see before in TH!
> I showered  tis morn(big move) and then changed my dressing myself..fine
> morn.........no Ted ....the MIFF is not all french. et it stands for
> Melbourne Film Festival.....or did I get that wrong.MIFF is composed with
> (or by) films from all over the world....Israeli, Turkish, German, French,
> Aust...as in Australian etc maybe an odd mongolian.I did not mean that
> really...Hong Kong, Chinese .and all...............
> I've been going since say....errr 1977 ( peutetre) sorry.... perhaps.......
> love jeff
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
> Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail
> _______________________________________________
> List mailing list
> List at tolharndor.org
> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
>

From krenon at y7mail.com  Wed Jul 22 10:36:02 2009
From: krenon at y7mail.com (Edwin Scribner)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 17:36:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TolHarndor] Tolkien Seminar (Call for Papers)
In-Reply-To: <ecc18000907211642tc179114j8a1fef1f6c953040@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <622226.32522.qm@web110210.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

OK! Saturday 28 August 2010 is IT! So ... what can Rozzie and I do from 29 August to 2 September? The latter date being the start of Aussiecon 4, Rozzie will thenceforth do her own thing but we're together till then.

... and you taught *what* language? I'll agree that where there is woman there is trouble, where there are women there is trouble, and where there are women there are troubles, but the verb to be takes the flouting of its grammar and syntax seriously. Consider "to boldly go". Look at all the troubles they had in the Enterprise, just because they had to boldly go instead of to go boldly!
?
Up here at present we spell "snow" as " 's no".
?
Time? What's that? Seconds go by as you look at your watch. A computer could calculate the country's national debt while you boil an egg. The smallest unit of time, according to contemorary physics, is a Planck Time Unit, which is 10^-43 of a second. It is said that, after that time unit had passed since the Big Bang, Gravity split from the other three fundamental forces. Contemplate that if you dare.
?
Today, 22 July,?is the birthday of (a) Kathryn Winifred Brenner, a wonderful lady who let me stay at her house in San Jos? for two weeks in 2002 (she's 78 btw, and she now lives in Santa Rosa), and (b) Tom Robbins, writer of wonderful fiction-with-valuable-messages, who lives somewhere near Seattle. He's 73.
?
Oh yes. Do not go gentle into that good night. Old age should burn and rave at close of day. How would he know? - he never lived to see it.

--- On Wed, 22/7/09, Jeff Lynch <jeffreyblynch at gmail.com> wrote:

Snow is all on the top of the head Ted....
To Michael...........Never fear Lynch is here (family
motto)...............we have two..the other one as well.Depending on
circumstances.........Where there is women there is trouble.
Now the real message Mikhail..The 28th is the 28th and OUR room is booked
for that day (a Saturday).....Now you know that a competent person like
myself would never confess to having booked OUR room for the day before!
Would I do that?
Anyway should you have thought that likely (at all) the fact is that I went
over to OUR venue...potential venue and spoke to a competent person at the
Pascoe Vale.....The room is the room and the date the 28th is the date..what
might have occurred before is (yet) a mystery.........the 27th might have
crept around until it did in fact become another date!
After all scientists and philosophers STILL do not know what time is eh Ted?
No doubt that is ALL clear to you to you know.......we shall meet Fates and
shades willing
,at the Pascoe Vale H on the 28th of May...errr sorry August!
Fine here...a rather mild morning too.
Do not go (..............) into that good night......until....
Jeff



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From jeffreyblynch at gmail.com  Thu Jul 23 09:18:30 2009
From: jeffreyblynch at gmail.com (Jeff Lynch)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 09:18:30 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] Tolkien Seminar (Call for Papers)
In-Reply-To: <622226.32522.qm@web110210.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <ecc18000907211642tc179114j8a1fef1f6c953040@mail.gmail.com>
	<622226.32522.qm@web110210.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ecc18000907221618w1fa890a5r56febee14d23d421@mail.gmail.com>

Did not live to see it.......too true Ted....mayhaps the man was wise then!
Read a lot of Thomas two years ago.....appropriately when I was in Wales...
'When I was young and there were wolves in Wales..'
also Thomas...'A Child's Christmas in Wales.'
Jeff
PS I taught no language(s)
.....truly your Santa Rosa gal seems a a doll
Ted
On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 10:36 AM, Edwin Scribner <krenon at y7mail.com> wrote:

> OK! Saturday 28 August 2010 is IT! So ... what can Rozzie and I do from 29
> August to 2 September? The latter date being the start of Aussiecon 4,
> Rozzie will thenceforth do her own thing but we're together till then.
>
> ... and you taught *what* language? I'll agree that where there is woman
> there is trouble, where there are women there is trouble, and where there
> are women there are troubles, but the verb to be takes the flouting of its
> grammar and syntax seriously. Consider "to boldly go". Look at all the
> troubles they had in the Enterprise, just because they had to boldly go
> instead of to go boldly!
>
> Up here at present we spell "snow" as " 's no".
>
> Time? What's that? Seconds go by as you look at your watch. A computer
> could calculate the country's national debt while you boil an egg. The
> smallest unit of time, according to contemorary physics, is a Planck Time
> Unit, which is 10^-43 of a second. It is said that, after that time unit had
> passed since the Big Bang, Gravity split from the other three fundamental
> forces. Contemplate that if you dare.
>
> Today, 22 July, is the birthday of (a) Kathryn Winifred Brenner, a
> wonderful lady who let me stay at her house in San Jos? for two weeks in
> 2002 (she's 78 btw, and she now lives in Santa Rosa), and (b) Tom Robbins,
> writer of wonderful fiction-with-valuable-messages, who lives somewhere near
> Seattle. He's 73.
>
> Oh yes. Do not go gentle into that good night. Old age should burn and rave
> at close of day. How would he know? - he never lived to see it.
>
> --- On Wed, 22/7/09, Jeff Lynch <jeffreyblynch at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Snow is all on the top of the head Ted....
> To Michael...........Never fear Lynch is here (family
> motto)...............we have two..the other one as well.Depending on
> circumstances.........Where there is women there is trouble.
> Now the real message Mikhail..The 28th is the 28th and OUR room is booked
> for that day (a Saturday).....Now you know that a competent person like
> myself would never confess to having booked OUR room for the day before!
> Would I do that?
> Anyway should you have thought that likely (at all) the fact is that I went
> over to OUR venue...potential venue and spoke to a competent person at the
> Pascoe Vale.....The room is the room and the date the 28th is the
> date..what
> might have occurred before is (yet) a mystery.........the 27th might have
> crept around until it did in fact become another date!
> After all scientists and philosophers STILL do not know what time is eh
> Ted?
> No doubt that is ALL clear to you to you know.......we shall meet Fates and
> shades willing
> ,at the Pascoe Vale H on the 28th of May...errr sorry August!
> Fine here...a rather mild morning too.
> Do not go (..............) into that good night......until....
> Jeff
>
>
>
>
>  ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
> Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail
> _______________________________________________
> List mailing list
> List at tolharndor.org
> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
>

From jeffreyblynch at gmail.com  Thu Jul 23 09:37:35 2009
From: jeffreyblynch at gmail.com (Jeff Lynch)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 09:37:35 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] 2010 Tolkien Seminar: comments
In-Reply-To: <0AEBCF413F5144FF91CD3BA6AEDFB462@Michael>
References: <408967.27381.qm@web110202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<0AEBCF413F5144FF91CD3BA6AEDFB462@Michael>
Message-ID: <ecc18000907221637n6cfe5ceam2b5d41e91fcd2f6a@mail.gmail.com>

Weather report,
Raining dragons and wizards here ....both last night and this
morning.........too wet to go to inspect my rain tanks....but I do know that
the first tank...where I took some water (off the top actually) to put on my
garden will have topped up again fro der roof.....three tanks full...that's
good isn't it?
I got tickets for Alphaville....par Jean Luc Goddard.....that's good too
isn't it?
love jeff
Have not had time to transcribe the found shire cricket score books......too
much to do!

From krenon at y7mail.com  Thu Jul 23 14:02:21 2009
From: krenon at y7mail.com (Edwin Scribner)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 21:02:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TolHarndor] 2010 Tolkien Seminar: comments
In-Reply-To: <ecc18000907221637n6cfe5ceam2b5d41e91fcd2f6a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <576361.9195.qm@web110207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

So many cats. So few recipes. I know how you feel, Jeff. :)

--- On Thu, 23/7/09, Jeff Lynch <jeffreyblynch at gmail.com> wrote:

Weather report,
Raining dragons and wizards here ....both last night and this
morning.........too wet to go to inspect my rain tanks....but I do know that
the first tank...where I took some water (off the top actually) to put on my
garden will have topped up again fro der roof.....three tanks full...that's
good isn't it?
I got tickets for Alphaville....par Jean Luc Goddard.....that's good too
isn't it?
love jeff
Have not had time to transcribe the found shire cricket score books......too
much to do!




      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail

From krenon at y7mail.com  Thu Jul 23 14:13:10 2009
From: krenon at y7mail.com (Edwin Scribner)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 21:13:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TolHarndor] Tolkien Seminar (Call for Papers)
In-Reply-To: <ecc18000907221618w1fa890a5r56febee14d23d421@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <372704.18194.qm@web110215.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Does she? Her oldest son is a REAL GEEK - a "systems engineer" with Apple Computers. She was in Melbourne in 1999 for Aussiecon 3 and I'm just wondering whether she'll come again next year. I'm even thinking of helping her with expenses.

I must confess to having read very little of Dylan Thomas. About the first thing though was the poem "Fern Hill" - there's a recording of Thomas reciting it to music of a well known composer whose name escapes me. "Now as I was young and easy under the apple-boughs ..." I wish I knew it all.

--- On Thu, 23/7/09, Jeff Lynch <jeffreyblynch at gmail.com> wrote:

Did not live to see it.......too true Ted....mayhaps the man was wise then!
Read a lot of Thomas two years ago.....appropriately when I was in Wales...
'When I was young and there were wolves in Wales..'
also Thomas...'A Child's Christmas in Wales.'
Jeff
PS I taught no language(s)
.....truly your Santa Rosa gal seems a a doll
Ted




      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail

From dragon at roots-boots.net  Thu Jul 23 19:34:37 2009
From: dragon at roots-boots.net (Marayong)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:34:37 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] 2010 Tolkien Seminar: comments
In-Reply-To: <576361.9195.qm@web110207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <576361.9195.qm@web110207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4A682EAD.40404@roots-boots.net>

Edwin Scribner wrote:
> So many cats. So few recipes. I know how you feel, Jeff. :)

Oh, there's more uses for cats than recipes. Exercising the dog for 
starters. :)

cheers,
David

> 
> --- On Thu, 23/7/09, Jeff Lynch <jeffreyblynch at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Weather report,
> Raining dragons and wizards here ....both last night and this
> morning.........too wet to go to inspect my rain tanks....but I do know that
> the first tank...where I took some water (off the top actually) to put on my
> garden will have topped up again fro der roof.....three tanks full...that's
> good isn't it?
> I got tickets for Alphaville....par Jean Luc Goddard.....that's good too
> isn't it?
> love jeff
> Have not had time to transcribe the found shire cricket score books......too
> much to do!
> 
> 
> 
> 
>       ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
> Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail
> _______________________________________________
> List mailing list
> List at tolharndor.org
> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
> 

-- 
Line dancing, Genealogy, Travel, Photography, Local history & more!
      http://roots-boots.net     mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net
The greatest tragedy that could overcome a country would be for it
  to fight a successful war in defence of liberty and to lose its
           own liberty in the process" - Robert Menzies


From jeffreyblynch at gmail.com  Fri Jul 24 10:10:54 2009
From: jeffreyblynch at gmail.com (Jeff Lynch)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 10:10:54 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] 2010 Tolkien Seminar: comments
In-Reply-To: <4A682EAD.40404@roots-boots.net>
References: <576361.9195.qm@web110207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<4A682EAD.40404@roots-boots.net>
Message-ID: <ecc18000907231710s742543ebxbc52c51413afac57@mail.gmail.com>

David....that is the answer of a (near Christian) boot scooter?
jeff

On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 7:34 PM, Marayong <dragon at roots-boots.net> wrote:

> Edwin Scribner wrote:
>
>> So many cats. So few recipes. I know how you feel, Jeff. :)
>>
>
> Oh, there's more uses for cats than recipes. Exercising the dog for
> starters. :)
>
> cheers,
> David
>
>
>
>> --- On Thu, 23/7/09, Jeff Lynch <jeffreyblynch at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Weather report,
>> Raining dragons and wizards here ....both last night and this
>> morning.........too wet to go to inspect my rain tanks....but I do know
>> that
>> the first tank...where I took some water (off the top actually) to put on
>> my
>> garden will have topped up again fro der roof.....three tanks
>> full...that's
>> good isn't it?
>> I got tickets for Alphaville....par Jean Luc Goddard.....that's good too
>> isn't it?
>> love jeff
>> Have not had time to transcribe the found shire cricket score
>> books......too
>> much to do!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  ____________________________________________________________________________________
>> Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
>> Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail
>> _______________________________________________
>> List mailing list
>> List at tolharndor.org
>> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
>>
>>
> --
> Line dancing, Genealogy, Travel, Photography, Local history & more!
>     http://roots-boots.net     mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net
> The greatest tragedy that could overcome a country would be for it
>  to fight a successful war in defence of liberty and to lose its
>          own liberty in the process" - Robert Menzies
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List mailing list
> List at tolharndor.org
> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
>

From dragon at roots-boots.net  Fri Jul 24 10:16:31 2009
From: dragon at roots-boots.net (Marayong)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 10:16:31 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] 2010 Tolkien Seminar: comments
In-Reply-To: <ecc18000907231710s742543ebxbc52c51413afac57@mail.gmail.com>
References: <576361.9195.qm@web110207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>	<4A682EAD.40404@roots-boots.net>
	<ecc18000907231710s742543ebxbc52c51413afac57@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A68FD5F.30109@roots-boots.net>

Jeff Lynch wrote:
> David....that is the answer of a (near Christian) boot scooter?

No, it's the answer from someone who grew up with dogs in the family. :)

cheers,
Woof, Woof!

> jeff
> 
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 7:34 PM, Marayong <dragon at roots-boots.net> wrote:
> 
>> Edwin Scribner wrote:
>>
>>> So many cats. So few recipes. I know how you feel, Jeff. :)
>>>
>> Oh, there's more uses for cats than recipes. Exercising the dog for
>> starters. :)
>>
>> cheers,
>> David
>>
>>
>>
>>> --- On Thu, 23/7/09, Jeff Lynch <jeffreyblynch at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Weather report,
>>> Raining dragons and wizards here ....both last night and this
>>> morning.........too wet to go to inspect my rain tanks....but I do know
>>> that
>>> the first tank...where I took some water (off the top actually) to put on
>>> my
>>> garden will have topped up again fro der roof.....three tanks
>>> full...that's
>>> good isn't it?
>>> I got tickets for Alphaville....par Jean Luc Goddard.....that's good too
>>> isn't it?
>>> love jeff
>>> Have not had time to transcribe the found shire cricket score
>>> books......too
>>> much to do!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  ____________________________________________________________________________________
>>> Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
>>> Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> List mailing list
>>> List at tolharndor.org
>>> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Line dancing, Genealogy, Travel, Photography, Local history & more!
>>     http://roots-boots.net     mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net
>> The greatest tragedy that could overcome a country would be for it
>>  to fight a successful war in defence of liberty and to lose its
>>          own liberty in the process" - Robert Menzies
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> List mailing list
>> List at tolharndor.org
>> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> List mailing list
> List at tolharndor.org
> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
> 

-- 
Line dancing, Genealogy, Travel, Photography, Local history & more!
      http://roots-boots.net     mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net
The greatest tragedy that could overcome a country would be for it
  to fight a successful war in defence of liberty and to lose its
           own liberty in the process" - Robert Menzies


From jeffreyblynch at gmail.com  Fri Jul 24 10:17:36 2009
From: jeffreyblynch at gmail.com (Jeff Lynch)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 10:17:36 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] Tolkien Seminar (Call for Papers)
In-Reply-To: <372704.18194.qm@web110215.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <ecc18000907221618w1fa890a5r56febee14d23d421@mail.gmail.com>
	<372704.18194.qm@web110215.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ecc18000907231717r18a5eb05w39e4d9ab62c718b4@mail.gmail.com>

Mmmm yes I think that there is (some) Thomas that might interest you Ted.if
I find a second hand book...(today?) I vill send it to u...........I vill zo
elp me.(if I go to Lygon Street! that is...)
Weather report....some black ice on the roads this morn.
4 or 5 degrees easy.....sunny now naturally
lady in distress up in der hills from revolving....fortunately not over her
car on ice unseen....is black ice.some one told me that you mihght get black
eyes from that HA!
Vas v funny
jeff
Ted David......need science help again.
Question is ....How far out would a huge sheet of something have to be form
the Earth....(in space I mean) in order to block out sunlight dropping on
(lighting on) the Earth........????
Have a silly idea...may have been done in fiction before.if it has I reckon
that you (Ted) will know of iot.
Jeff (again)

On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 2:13 PM, Edwin Scribner <krenon at y7mail.com> wrote:

> Does she? Her oldest son is a REAL GEEK - a "systems engineer" with Apple
> Computers. She was in Melbourne in 1999 for Aussiecon 3 and I'm just
> wondering whether she'll come again next year. I'm even thinking of helping
> her with expenses.
>
> I must confess to having read very little of Dylan Thomas. About the first
> thing though was the poem "Fern Hill" - there's a recording of Thomas
> reciting it to music of a well known composer whose name escapes me. "Now as
> I was young and easy under the apple-boughs ..." I wish I knew it all.
>
> --- On Thu, 23/7/09, Jeff Lynch <jeffreyblynch at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Did not live to see it.......too true Ted....mayhaps the man was wise then!
> Read a lot of Thomas two years ago.....appropriately when I was in Wales...
> 'When I was young and there were wolves in Wales..'
> also Thomas...'A Child's Christmas in Wales.'
> Jeff
> PS I taught no language(s)
> .....truly your Santa Rosa gal seems a a doll
> Ted
>
>
>
>
>
>  ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
> Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail
> _______________________________________________
> List mailing list
> List at tolharndor.org
> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
>

From jeffreyblynch at gmail.com  Fri Jul 24 10:34:16 2009
From: jeffreyblynch at gmail.com (Jeff Lynch)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 10:34:16 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] 2010 Tolkien Seminar: comments
In-Reply-To: <4A68FD5F.30109@roots-boots.net>
References: <576361.9195.qm@web110207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<4A682EAD.40404@roots-boots.net>
	<ecc18000907231710s742543ebxbc52c51413afac57@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A68FD5F.30109@roots-boots.net>
Message-ID: <ecc18000907231734s7c432ccbs400fdc39d12ad4ba@mail.gmail.com>

Grrrrrrr
jeff

On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 10:16 AM, Marayong <dragon at roots-boots.net> wrote:

> Jeff Lynch wrote:
>
>> David....that is the answer of a (near Christian) boot scooter?
>>
>
> No, it's the answer from someone who grew up with dogs in the family. :)
>
> cheers,
> Woof, Woof!
>
>
> jeff
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 7:34 PM, Marayong <dragon at roots-boots.net> wrote:
>>
>> Edwin Scribner wrote:
>>>
>>> So many cats. So few recipes. I know how you feel, Jeff. :)
>>>>
>>>> Oh, there's more uses for cats than recipes. Exercising the dog for
>>> starters. :)
>>>
>>> cheers,
>>> David
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On Thu, 23/7/09, Jeff Lynch <jeffreyblynch at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Weather report,
>>>> Raining dragons and wizards here ....both last night and this
>>>> morning.........too wet to go to inspect my rain tanks....but I do know
>>>> that
>>>> the first tank...where I took some water (off the top actually) to put
>>>> on
>>>> my
>>>> garden will have topped up again fro der roof.....three tanks
>>>> full...that's
>>>> good isn't it?
>>>> I got tickets for Alphaville....par Jean Luc Goddard.....that's good too
>>>> isn't it?
>>>> love jeff
>>>> Have not had time to transcribe the found shire cricket score
>>>> books......too
>>>> much to do!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  ____________________________________________________________________________________
>>>> Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
>>>> Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> List mailing list
>>>> List at tolharndor.org
>>>> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>> Line dancing, Genealogy, Travel, Photography, Local history & more!
>>>    http://roots-boots.net     mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net
>>> The greatest tragedy that could overcome a country would be for it
>>>  to fight a successful war in defence of liberty and to lose its
>>>         own liberty in the process" - Robert Menzies
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> List mailing list
>>> List at tolharndor.org
>>> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>> List mailing list
>> List at tolharndor.org
>> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
>>
>>
> --
> Line dancing, Genealogy, Travel, Photography, Local history & more!
>     http://roots-boots.net     mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net
> The greatest tragedy that could overcome a country would be for it
>  to fight a successful war in defence of liberty and to lose its
>          own liberty in the process" - Robert Menzies
>
> _______________________________________________
> List mailing list
> List at tolharndor.org
> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
>

From jeffreyblynch at gmail.com  Fri Jul 24 10:34:59 2009
From: jeffreyblynch at gmail.com (Jeff Lynch)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 10:34:59 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] 2010 Tolkien Seminar: comments
In-Reply-To: <4A68FD5F.30109@roots-boots.net>
References: <576361.9195.qm@web110207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<4A682EAD.40404@roots-boots.net>
	<ecc18000907231710s742543ebxbc52c51413afac57@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A68FD5F.30109@roots-boots.net>
Message-ID: <ecc18000907231734k72de92cev618970fee8073360@mail.gmail.com>

David....and what is the answer to my (sun) question?
jeff

On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 10:16 AM, Marayong <dragon at roots-boots.net> wrote:

> Jeff Lynch wrote:
>
>> David....that is the answer of a (near Christian) boot scooter?
>>
>
> No, it's the answer from someone who grew up with dogs in the family. :)
>
> cheers,
> Woof, Woof!
>
>
> jeff
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 7:34 PM, Marayong <dragon at roots-boots.net> wrote:
>>
>> Edwin Scribner wrote:
>>>
>>> So many cats. So few recipes. I know how you feel, Jeff. :)
>>>>
>>>> Oh, there's more uses for cats than recipes. Exercising the dog for
>>> starters. :)
>>>
>>> cheers,
>>> David
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On Thu, 23/7/09, Jeff Lynch <jeffreyblynch at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Weather report,
>>>> Raining dragons and wizards here ....both last night and this
>>>> morning.........too wet to go to inspect my rain tanks....but I do know
>>>> that
>>>> the first tank...where I took some water (off the top actually) to put
>>>> on
>>>> my
>>>> garden will have topped up again fro der roof.....three tanks
>>>> full...that's
>>>> good isn't it?
>>>> I got tickets for Alphaville....par Jean Luc Goddard.....that's good too
>>>> isn't it?
>>>> love jeff
>>>> Have not had time to transcribe the found shire cricket score
>>>> books......too
>>>> much to do!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  ____________________________________________________________________________________
>>>> Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
>>>> Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> List mailing list
>>>> List at tolharndor.org
>>>> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>> Line dancing, Genealogy, Travel, Photography, Local history & more!
>>>    http://roots-boots.net     mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net
>>> The greatest tragedy that could overcome a country would be for it
>>>  to fight a successful war in defence of liberty and to lose its
>>>         own liberty in the process" - Robert Menzies
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> List mailing list
>>> List at tolharndor.org
>>> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>> List mailing list
>> List at tolharndor.org
>> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
>>
>>
> --
> Line dancing, Genealogy, Travel, Photography, Local history & more!
>     http://roots-boots.net     mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net
> The greatest tragedy that could overcome a country would be for it
>  to fight a successful war in defence of liberty and to lose its
>          own liberty in the process" - Robert Menzies
>
> _______________________________________________
> List mailing list
> List at tolharndor.org
> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
>

From jeffreyblynch at gmail.com  Fri Jul 24 10:41:18 2009
From: jeffreyblynch at gmail.com (Jeff Lynch)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 10:41:18 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] Tolkien Seminar (Call for Papers)
In-Reply-To: <372704.18194.qm@web110215.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <ecc18000907221618w1fa890a5r56febee14d23d421@mail.gmail.com>
	<372704.18194.qm@web110215.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ecc18000907231741g2007310ai3a71cfe6befac0ae@mail.gmail.com>

Ted if necessary do help her(in any way) to get her here
.
Such people are rare........and needed by small but cunning groups (such as
ours)....I mean Tol Harndor.
jeff
On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 2:13 PM, Edwin Scribner <krenon at y7mail.com> wrote:

> Does she? Her oldest son is a REAL GEEK - a "systems engineer" with Apple
> Computers. She was in Melbourne in 1999 for Aussiecon 3 and I'm just
> wondering whether she'll come again next year. I'm even thinking of helping
> her with expenses.
>
> I must confess to having read very little of Dylan Thomas. About the first
> thing though was the poem "Fern Hill" - there's a recording of Thomas
> reciting it to music of a well known composer whose name escapes me. "Now as
> I was young and easy under the apple-boughs ..." I wish I knew it all.
>
> --- On Thu, 23/7/09, Jeff Lynch <jeffreyblynch at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Did not live to see it.......too true Ted....mayhaps the man was wise then!
> Read a lot of Thomas two years ago.....appropriately when I was in Wales...
> 'When I was young and there were wolves in Wales..'
> also Thomas...'A Child's Christmas in Wales.'
> Jeff
> PS I taught no language(s)
> .....truly your Santa Rosa gal seems a a doll
> Ted
>
>
>
>
>
>  ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
> Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail
> _______________________________________________
> List mailing list
> List at tolharndor.org
> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
>

From krenon at y7mail.com  Fri Jul 24 12:45:27 2009
From: krenon at y7mail.com (Edwin Scribner)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:45:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TolHarndor] Tolkien Seminar (Call for Papers)
In-Reply-To: <ecc18000907231717r18a5eb05w39e4d9ab62c718b4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <533239.41559.qm@web110202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

That's mighty kind of you, Jeff. I'm wondering whether Dylan Thomas always wrote in English or did he write in Cymric and then translate it?

Black ice? Yesterday I was cruising along the Great Western Highway near Hartley and on the way to Lithgow (30 Km from Blackheath). I'd just negotiated the notorious Victoria Pass and was doing about 85 on a speed limit 90 road when suddenly a sign loomed up with the message, in lights "BLACK ICE MAY OCCUR HERE". Fortunately it didn't and in any case, at the time I was there (about 8 am) any ice should have been removed by the tyres of numerous semi trailers and B-doubles.

To block sunlight from the Earth by means of a very large sheet is a formidable task. Consider the Moon. Just two days ago it managed to block sunlight from a small strip across India, Bangladesh, Nepal and China, for six minutes. To completely block the whole Earth would require an enormous piece of fabric and it would need to be made of a material a lot stronger than any known. The figures involved: The Earth's diameter (about 12,000 Km I think), the Sun's diameter (around 1.6 million Km I think) ands their separation (about 150 million Km - I'm more confident of that figure). Draw a diagram that looks like one of Da Vinci's sketches and it might just be possible to work it out.

Cheers

Ted

--- On Fri, 24/7/09, Jeff Lynch <jeffreyblynch at gmail.com> wrote:

Mmmm yes I think that there is (some) Thomas that might interest you Ted.if
I find a second hand book...(today?) I vill send it to u...........I vill zo
elp me.(if I go to Lygon Street! that is...)
Weather report....some black ice on the roads this morn.
4 or 5 degrees easy.....sunny now naturally
lady in distress up in der hills from revolving....fortunately not over her
car on ice unseen....is black ice.some one told me that you mihght get black
eyes from that HA!
Vas v funny
jeff
Ted David......need science help again.
Question is ....How far out would a huge sheet of something have to be form
the Earth....(in space I mean) in order to block out sunlight dropping on
(lighting on) the Earth........????
Have a silly idea...may have been done in fiction before.if it has I reckon
that you (Ted) will know of iot.
Jeff (again)

On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 2:13 PM, Edwin Scribner <krenon at y7mail.com> wrote:

> Does she? Her oldest son is a REAL GEEK - a "systems engineer" with Apple
> Computers. She was in Melbourne in 1999 for Aussiecon 3 and I'm just
> wondering whether she'll come again next year. I'm even thinking of helping
> her with expenses.
>
> I must confess to having read very little of Dylan Thomas. About the first
> thing though was the poem "Fern Hill" - there's a recording of Thomas
> reciting it to music of a well known composer whose name escapes me. "Now as
> I was young and easy under the apple-boughs ..." I wish I knew it all.
>
> --- On Thu, 23/7/09, Jeff Lynch <jeffreyblynch at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Did not live to see it.......too true Ted....mayhaps the man was wise then!
> Read a lot of Thomas two years ago.....appropriately when I was in Wales...
> 'When I was young and there were wolves in Wales..'
> also Thomas...'A Child's Christmas in Wales.'
> Jeff
> PS I taught no language(s)
> .....truly your Santa Rosa gal seems a a doll
> Ted
>
>
>
>
>
>? ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
> Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail
> _______________________________________________
> List mailing list
> List at tolharndor.org
> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
>
_______________________________________________
List mailing list
List at tolharndor.org
http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail

From dragon at roots-boots.net  Fri Jul 24 13:55:25 2009
From: dragon at roots-boots.net (Marayong)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 13:55:25 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] Tolkien Seminar (Call for Papers)
In-Reply-To: <ecc18000907231717r18a5eb05w39e4d9ab62c718b4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ecc18000907221618w1fa890a5r56febee14d23d421@mail.gmail.com>	<372704.18194.qm@web110215.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<ecc18000907231717r18a5eb05w39e4d9ab62c718b4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A6930AD.9080509@roots-boots.net>

Jeff Lynch wrote:
> Ted David......need science help again.
> Question is ....How far out would a huge sheet of something have to be form
> the Earth....(in space I mean) in order to block out sunlight dropping on
> (lighting on) the Earth........????
> Have a silly idea...may have been done in fiction before.if it has I reckon
> that you (Ted) will know of iot.
> Jeff (again)

It has been done before.

There's not a simple answer to that question. If the sheet is not far 
from the Earth then the sheet would need to about as large as the Earth 
... a disk a little shy of 13,000km across.

Of course, the closer the sheet is to the sun, the larger it would need 
to be - the sun s a LOT larger than the Earth so as far as the geometry 
goes the Earth can be considered a point ... so the smallest size the 
disk would be would be when it's right next to the Earth.

Since the sheet would not be close enuf that it would be essentially 
touching the Earth (ie it would be in space), it would likely have to be 
larger than 15,000km. Putting it between the Earth & the moon would 
cause several issues, mainly it would not be stable thanks to the 
gravity of the Earth & the Moon and also you'd have to watch out that 
the Moon didn't crash into it .. also that close and it would have to 
orbit .. so instead of a disk you'd need to englobe the entire earth.

Actually, the only place you could put it would be in one of the 
Lagrangian points, specifically the L1 point since it is the only one 
between the Earth & the Sun, approx. 1.5 million km's in from the Earth. 
The distance from the Earth to the Sun varies from 146 to 152 million km's.

Using some back of the envelope calculations and the diameter of the 
Earth, the sun and the distance between the two, you would need a disk 
27,000km diameter at the L1 point to completely block all sunlight from 
reaching the earth.

The next issue would be how much sunlight you want to block ... some of 
it, most of it or all of it. Even some of it could have a drastic 
effect, eventually dropping the maximum surface temp to below zero. 
Cutting all of it would drop the surface temperature to over 200C below 
zero. It would never reach as cold as Pluto since the Earth is 
geologically active and generates it's own heat.

A smaller than 27,000km diam disk at the L1 would cut some but not all 
of the sunlight .. but enuf to drop the whole Earth to below freezing.

The disk would not actually have to be made of a tough material .. even 
a gas would do the job, tho' it would not last long before the solar 
wind disperses it. Even at the L1 point, a disk 27,000km across would 
need to be anchored in place (thrusters or the like). Since it would be 
in a microgravity situation, the strength of the material is not really 
important.

But ... to answer your question ... you'd need a 27,000km wide disk 
placed about 1.5 million km in from the Earth (ie: on a line between the 
Earth & the Sun).

cheers,
David
-- 
Line dancing, Genealogy, Travel, Photography, Local history & more!
      http://roots-boots.net     mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net
The greatest tragedy that could overcome a country would be for it
  to fight a successful war in defence of liberty and to lose its
           own liberty in the process" - Robert Menzies


From jeffreyblynch at gmail.com  Sat Jul 25 10:14:37 2009
From: jeffreyblynch at gmail.com (Jeff Lynch)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 10:14:37 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] Tolkien Seminar (Call for Papers)
In-Reply-To: <4A6930AD.9080509@roots-boots.net>
References: <ecc18000907221618w1fa890a5r56febee14d23d421@mail.gmail.com>
	<372704.18194.qm@web110215.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<ecc18000907231717r18a5eb05w39e4d9ab62c718b4@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A6930AD.9080509@roots-boots.net>
Message-ID: <ecc18000907241714h43be7846n388dd95d0c1d6c48@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you David ...Thank you Ted for the shadowy answers (actually quite
bright really ) to my silly question.....David you said it has been done
before?...In fiction....do you know by whom and when..or title?
Jeff

On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 1:55 PM, Marayong <dragon at roots-boots.net> wrote:

> Jeff Lynch wrote:
>
>> Ted David......need science help again.
>> Question is ....How far out would a huge sheet of something have to be
>> form
>> the Earth....(in space I mean) in order to block out sunlight dropping on
>> (lighting on) the Earth........????
>> Have a silly idea...may have been done in fiction before.if it has I
>> reckon
>> that you (Ted) will know of iot.
>> Jeff (again)
>>
>
> It has been done before.
>
> There's not a simple answer to that question. If the sheet is not far from
> the Earth then the sheet would need to about as large as the Earth ... a
> disk a little shy of 13,000km across.
>
> Of course, the closer the sheet is to the sun, the larger it would need to
> be - the sun s a LOT larger than the Earth so as far as the geometry goes
> the Earth can be considered a point ... so the smallest size the disk would
> be would be when it's right next to the Earth.
>
> Since the sheet would not be close enuf that it would be essentially
> touching the Earth (ie it would be in space), it would likely have to be
> larger than 15,000km. Putting it between the Earth & the moon would cause
> several issues, mainly it would not be stable thanks to the gravity of the
> Earth & the Moon and also you'd have to watch out that the Moon didn't crash
> into it .. also that close and it would have to orbit .. so instead of a
> disk you'd need to englobe the entire earth.
>
> Actually, the only place you could put it would be in one of the Lagrangian
> points, specifically the L1 point since it is the only one between the Earth
> & the Sun, approx. 1.5 million km's in from the Earth. The distance from the
> Earth to the Sun varies from 146 to 152 million km's.
>
> Using some back of the envelope calculations and the diameter of the Earth,
> the sun and the distance between the two, you would need a disk 27,000km
> diameter at the L1 point to completely block all sunlight from reaching the
> earth.
>
> The next issue would be how much sunlight you want to block ... some of it,
> most of it or all of it. Even some of it could have a drastic effect,
> eventually dropping the maximum surface temp to below zero. Cutting all of
> it would drop the surface temperature to over 200C below zero. It would
> never reach as cold as Pluto since the Earth is geologically active and
> generates it's own heat.
>
> A smaller than 27,000km diam disk at the L1 would cut some but not all of
> the sunlight .. but enuf to drop the whole Earth to below freezing.
>
> The disk would not actually have to be made of a tough material .. even a
> gas would do the job, tho' it would not last long before the solar wind
> disperses it. Even at the L1 point, a disk 27,000km across would need to be
> anchored in place (thrusters or the like). Since it would be in a
> microgravity situation, the strength of the material is not really
> important.
>
> But ... to answer your question ... you'd need a 27,000km wide disk placed
> about 1.5 million km in from the Earth (ie: on a line between the Earth &
> the Sun).
>
> cheers,
> David
> --
> Line dancing, Genealogy, Travel, Photography, Local history & more!
>     http://roots-boots.net     mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net
> The greatest tragedy that could overcome a country would be for it
>  to fight a successful war in defence of liberty and to lose its
>          own liberty in the process" - Robert Menzies
>
> _______________________________________________
>  List mailing list
> List at tolharndor.org
> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
>

From jeffreyblynch at gmail.com  Sat Jul 25 11:27:27 2009
From: jeffreyblynch at gmail.com (Jeff Lynch)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 11:27:27 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] Tolkien Seminar (Call for Papers)
In-Reply-To: <533239.41559.qm@web110202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <ecc18000907231717r18a5eb05w39e4d9ab62c718b4@mail.gmail.com>
	<533239.41559.qm@web110202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ecc18000907241827t72af2449m4269d5f41eace6ba@mail.gmail.com>

Ted ...I did go to Lygon Steet and I did purchase....A collection of Thomas'
poems....I kinda annotated it (mit pencil) to give an idea of those poems
that affected me more than others...I do not say I've read them all.
As for what the boyho wrote in (language not the clour of his pyjamas......)
I think that he wrote in English ...but it is true..I had not thought a
scrap about the matter..You are probably aware Ted, that he did undertake a
series of poetry readings on the BBC...mostly his own stuff(I think!)..I
have heard  some of this....I have also heard him (i think) reading his
'Under Milkwood'......there is another terrific reading by (sir) Richard
Burton too.......mayhaps you ave heard that one Ted?
Thete are 2 sections...scraps really of Under Milkwopod in the book I have
for you.

Gynedd story in the brief............only
I remember how sweet it was (in Beddgelert) when I'd be chatting away to
some Welsh git (in english nat) and then like a bolt out of the blue he'd
start talking in Welsh to another dude....they might chat like birds for a
while and then just continue with their con avec moi.....itn was
cute...being an Aussie you are kinda immune from anti Anglais feelings...if
you start among 300 natives( for two months) in the village and walk around
the village in leather sandals and a big thick (Berlin Bought......in Mitte,
coat) in North Wales..called Gynnedd.(ie at the foot..... almost of Mount
Snowdown)......  in the pouring mountain rains  rain and the rain again Ah
but (Northern English east coast towns flooded that time) in Summer..they
sort of take you to heart (a bit)......and when you see the ducks wing away
after getting tired of the great torrents of mountain flood waters scranging
and rock banging down the one stream from Snowdon and the rest of the milky
clouded hilltops pocked with soaring vulture birds called by another
mountain eyrie name........this torrent of luvely summer in Gynnedd to bang
into another stream..... (there's a confluence right spang in the middle of
the town of Beddgelert you know it's a bit wet mate. her all right

And if you (he) meets a lonely woman in a wig one day in the coach pub of
nineteenth past Century and not the next  pub ...his local now........(a bad
wig too it is bedad)..... who is..She is... part drinking ghost, part
fulsome siren who's thinking of selling her wet house near the river... and
a part lonely widow Welsh speaker wife of the town....her husband was killed
outright in all of a mangle of a rural (farm to you) accident) five years
hence going backward....drinking  a bit in Beddgelert and the next town
too..when she is likely to meet you more than half way to your
rented cottage not far. She's not for rent though you see....she's better
than free maybe in both Welsh and English

If she tells you (him) at the second meeting of your first and and as far as
you know your only life that you had come there timely and ya face is in
Welsh something he cannot get it but she thinks that he already
has.............and she was there (you thought) for a talk only with you
(she's a local too) and you did talk and she was grinning a bit too....A
woman who told a man of her connections with NZ....(her daughter no less)
Says she bound to go back there soon again....and she asks you to meet her
in the next pub two nights later...no probs.... and there is no
show......not like Punch..none nada.
Normal he thinks and thort no more thought except that maybe she is odder
than he is?....No doubt but not entirely sure about that now.....and then in
your (his) very own(local) the following....she appears encore....has more
drinks than more and wants him to be much the same........
 She tells the man that (they will have sex at his house very shortly). I
might have been there too, for I remember distincty that I heard those
actual words...she thinks she's likely to walk a stranger....the stranger I
mean....sorry they had met now twice.......once missed too, so that makes
two and almost a bit.
 .......yes walks him home so that something can happen (as it might just)
is this taking village companionship too far...or not?

I can not take a moral line here....I'm too close to stand back, but I did
write of it.....and I suppose I should own up too that the same lady
decided..........almost unilaterally too that a man needed a travelling
companion (by rail) to great city of London....and beyond until Heathrow was
underneath a taking off thing. Same man could have refused (not
easily)..........and when the boyho at the bar (whom same same man has given
a car to him for free and for nothing but to see the lad think on how he
might make a quid out of it.( the Volvo)...he'd bought the car legal near
Stoke quite so......The lad behind the bar drives this man and that lady to
Carnaevon Station for the catching of a (too coc a bloc local train)...there
all olff to the races...... to take the two fortnight met people to a bigger
station (ie near Stoke on Trent)
All change at .......! you and hey they do get to London....she gets to
London too...now where all here. And after only one night (when she kisses a
cousin somewhere in East London) they meet in a shockingly decorated room
(out of Sherezade by brothel's whimsy)...really does beat any frowsy big
band. It's no brothel tho' but run by Pakis of course. Tidy and neglectful
Pakis..turn the other Pakis they are and ewell and good for it's the center
if you want to spell it that way of London.....

And of course the only terrorist is the lady from Beddgelert but that's too
easy to say. He has almost paid for the room (one or two lumps in bed?) and
waits for some questions from Pakistani moralists but hears not a word..He
gets to take her to the Old Tate Gallery and if you think that is a
coincidence ( I mean the writer doesI too love Art) well it's all of a
confusion in the poor unpublished novelist's head).....he's offa his brain
he is.
But Happy.... He does likes the pub tho'( the second one that they tried
out..... a lot) and then they laugh a lot in pubs and roll around a bit and
also laugh in the all too red ruby room and the finugly two bedded
place upstairs.....so there you have a bit of a Beddgelert tale...... a
Gynnedd wet summer's dream almost.......... one silly old post Arturian chap
(retired unkighted) playing at being something v like the half crazy poet
that he almost was always. Then as I said the daft coot wrote about it too.
He dunno why and nor does she.........he supposes.

Jeff
On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 12:45 PM, Edwin Scribner <krenon at y7mail.com> wrote:

> That's mighty kind of you, Jeff. I'm wondering whether Dylan Thomas always
> wrote in English or did he write in Cymric and then translate it?
>
> Black ice? Yesterday I was cruising along the Great Western Highway near
> Hartley and on the way to Lithgow (30 Km from Blackheath). I'd just
> negotiated the notorious Victoria Pass and was doing about 85 on a speed
> limit 90 road when suddenly a sign loomed up with the message, in lights
> "BLACK ICE MAY OCCUR HERE". Fortunately it didn't and in any case, at the
> time I was there (about 8 am) any ice should have been removed by the tyres
> of numerous semi trailers and B-doubles.
>
> To block sunlight from the Earth by means of a very large sheet is a
> formidable task. Consider the Moon. Just two days ago it managed to block
> sunlight from a small strip across India, Bangladesh, Nepal and China, for
> six minutes. To completely block the whole Earth would require an enormous
> piece of fabric and it would need to be made of a material a lot stronger
> than any known. The figures involved: The Earth's diameter (about 12,000 Km
> I think), the Sun's diameter (around 1.6 million Km I think) ands their
> separation (about 150 million Km - I'm more confident of that figure). Draw
> a diagram that looks like one of Da Vinci's sketches and it might just be
> possible to work it out.
>
> Cheers
>
> Ted
>
> --- On Fri, 24/7/09, Jeff Lynch <jeffreyblynch at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Mmmm yes I think that there is (some) Thomas that might interest you Ted.if
> I find a second hand book...(today?) I vill send it to u...........I vill
> zo
> elp me.(if I go to Lygon Street! that is...)
> Weather report....some black ice on the roads this morn.
> 4 or 5 degrees easy.....sunny now naturally
> lady in distress up in der hills from revolving....fortunately not over her
> car on ice unseen....is black ice.some one told me that you mihght get
> black
> eyes from that HA!
> Vas v funny
> jeff
> Ted David......need science help again.
> Question is ....How far out would a huge sheet of something have to be form
> the Earth....(in space I mean) in order to block out sunlight dropping on
> (lighting on) the Earth........????
> Have a silly idea...may have been done in fiction before.if it has I reckon
> that you (Ted) will know of iot.
> Jeff (again)
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 2:13 PM, Edwin Scribner <krenon at y7mail.com> wrote:
>
> > Does she? Her oldest son is a REAL GEEK - a "systems engineer" with Apple
> > Computers. She was in Melbourne in 1999 for Aussiecon 3 and I'm just
> > wondering whether she'll come again next year. I'm even thinking of
> helping
> > her with expenses.
> >
> > I must confess to having read very little of Dylan Thomas. About the
> first
> > thing though was the poem "Fern Hill" - there's a recording of Thomas
> > reciting it to music of a well known composer whose name escapes me. "Now
> as
> > I was young and easy under the apple-boughs ..." I wish I knew it all.
> >
> > --- On Thu, 23/7/09, Jeff Lynch <jeffreyblynch at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Did not live to see it.......too true Ted....mayhaps the man was wise
> then!
> > Read a lot of Thomas two years ago.....appropriately when I was in
> Wales...
> > 'When I was young and there were wolves in Wales..'
> > also Thomas...'A Child's Christmas in Wales.'
> > Jeff
> > PS I taught no language(s)
> > .....truly your Santa Rosa gal seems a a doll
> > Ted
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> > Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
> > Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail
> > _______________________________________________
> > List mailing list
> > List at tolharndor.org
> > http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> List mailing list
> List at tolharndor.org
> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
>
>
>
>
>  ____________________________________________________________________________________
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>

From jeffreyblynch at gmail.com  Sun Jul 26 12:00:17 2009
From: jeffreyblynch at gmail.com (Jeff Lynch)
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 12:00:17 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] 2010 Tolkien Seminar
In-Reply-To: <832255.64106.qm@web110216.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <76315CCBBD964F80865BFD69C2D57C23@Michael>
	<832255.64106.qm@web110216.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ecc18000907251900p3e3f819ck9cba92d956f65dc8@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Ted,
Please send me your postal address. I do think I have it but not sure.....in
order that I may send Dylan Thomas...as you see he's doing silly things to
me .I am far better off without it I am sure.........
Ta
Jeff

From mlk at activ8.net.au  Sun Jul 26 13:50:43 2009
From: mlk at activ8.net.au (Michael Kennedy)
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 13:50:43 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] 2010 Tolkien Seminar: comments
In-Reply-To: <408967.27381.qm@web110202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <27D5A06E35EF4282BD0E74C8DC1F69D4@Michael>

Thanks Ted for the suggestions. I've adopted most of them in one form or
another but take a look at the latest draft and tell me if you think it
needs anything else.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: list-bounces at tolharndor.org [mailto:list-
> bounces at tolharndor.org] On Behalf Of Edwin Scribner
> Sent: Saturday, 18 July 2009 11:31 AM
> To: Tol Harndor - Australian Tolkien Society
> Subject: Re: [TolHarndor] 2010 Tolkien Seminar: comments
> 
> For the purpose of commenting on the draft, I have marked the
> existing passages of draft (by paragraph) with a leading ">".
> My comments or suggestions for change or addition are unmarked.
> 
> >Tolkien Seminar
> >The Tolkien Society & Tol Harndor
> 
> The Tolkien Society and its Australasian smial (affiliate group)
> present:
> 
> Tolkien Seminar: "Tolkien's Odysseys - Middle-Earth and Beyond"
> 
> >Saturday, 28th August 2010
> 
> (venue)
> 
> >Melbourne, Australia
> 
> >Tolkien's Odysseys - Middle-earth and Beyond
> 
> (v.i.)
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------
> 
> >Call for Papers
> 
> >ODYSSEY: A long series of wanderings, a long adventurous
> journey; fig. an
> extended process of development or change. (OED)
> 
> Literally: a
>  long .....; figuratively: an extended ....
> 
> >"To a story-teller a journey is a marvellous device."? Tolkien
> Letters 183
> 
> >OR
> 
> >"On a journey of a length sufficient to provide the untoward
> in any
>  degree
> from discomfort to fear the change in companions well-known in
> 'ordinary
> life' (and in oneself) is often startling" Tolkien Letters 183
> 
> >OR
> 
> >"You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet,
> there is no
> knowing where you might be swept off to."? (Frodo quoting Bilbo
> - Lord of
> the Rings)
> 
> For the purpose of this seminar, I like the substance of the
> second quote more that that of the third, but it is not
> expressed as clearly or concisely as the third. I put this down
> to the fact that Tolkien's letters were more like first draft
> than was the passage in LotR. Beyond that comment I won't
> specifically advocate either one.
> 
> >This significant annual event in the Tolkien calendar is being
> held in
> Australia for the second time. The Tolkien Seminar will be held
> in Melbourne
> 
> Here you could put in "close to 'Aussiecon 4', the 68th World
> Science Fiction Convention, to be held in Melbourne
>  from 2nd to 6th September ( http://www.aussiecon4.org.au/ )"
> 
> >and we invite people from here and abroad with an interest
>  in Tolkien to
> submit a paper for consideration.
> 
> from Australia and all other countries
> 
> >The theme of odysseys is wide-ranging in scope and can cover
> not only
> various aspects of odysseys in the works of Tolkien but also
> the trials and
> tribulations of Tolkien's own life in his quest to produce his
> own
> mythology.
> 
> especially his quest to write a mythology specific to Britain
> (not all quests succeed - this was one that didn't).
> 
> >Some potential topics for consideration might be:
> 
> > - ? The odysseys or journeys of individual characters or
> groups
> 
> eg Bilbo, Frodo, Turin, Beren
> 
> >? -? The physical and spiritual development of characters from
> all of Tolkien's works
> >? -? Plot development in The Lord of The Rings
> > -?? The use of 'journey' as a plot device
> > -?? Change for good and change for evil
> 
> changes for good, evil or
>  both
> 
> > -?? Odyssey - predestination and free choice
> 
> (and the influences on choice)
> 
> > - ? J.R.R. Tolkien' own personal odyssey in regards to not
> only the development of his stories, but also his life
> 
> influences on him, especially war
> 
> > -??? Homer's Odyssey - the
>  parallels
> 
> and Leopold Bloom's odyssey? - said in jest but there might be
> some scope.
> 
> >Papers should be either 20 or 45 minutes long to fit into
> half-hour or hour
> slots with time for questions/discussion. There may also be
> scope to
> accommodate a number of short 10 minute presentations. Please
> send the
> title, a short summary/abstract and the intended length to the
> Seminar
> organiser: Michael Kennedy at mlk at activ8.net.au
> 
> I think that, given the one day nature of the seminar, there
> should be only one 1-hour paper, and that should be the keynote
> address. The keynote address should be given by a person
> selected/requested to do it. Michael is the obvious bunny ..
> er.. person for the job. Also it would be a good idea if you
> could confirm the availability of 10 minute talks before the
> final cfp goes
>  out.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Herendil
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________________________
> _____________________
> Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
> Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail
> _______________________________________________
> List mailing list
> List at tolharndor.org
> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org

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From krenon at y7mail.com  Sun Jul 26 16:30:19 2009
From: krenon at y7mail.com (Edwin Scribner)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 23:30:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TolHarndor] 2010 Tolkien Seminar: comments
Message-ID: <556770.13626.qm@web110208.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hi Michael. That looks pretty good, but I think that it may be advantageous to fit it on one page. I've attempted to do that and have attached the draft. I've also made a few very minor alterations which you may like to consider. Others please comment as appropriate.

Cheers

Ted

--- On Sun, 26/7/09, Michael Kennedy <mlk at activ8.net.au> wrote:

Thanks Ted for the suggestions. I've adopted most of them in one form or
another but take a look at the latest draft and tell me if you think it
needs anything else.




      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail
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From dragon at roots-boots.net  Sun Jul 26 17:40:44 2009
From: dragon at roots-boots.net (Marayong)
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 17:40:44 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] Tolkien Seminar (Call for Papers)
In-Reply-To: <ecc18000907241714h43be7846n388dd95d0c1d6c48@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ecc18000907221618w1fa890a5r56febee14d23d421@mail.gmail.com>	<372704.18194.qm@web110215.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>	<ecc18000907231717r18a5eb05w39e4d9ab62c718b4@mail.gmail.com>	<4A6930AD.9080509@roots-boots.net>
	<ecc18000907241714h43be7846n388dd95d0c1d6c48@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A6C087C.6090407@roots-boots.net>

Jeff Lynch wrote:
> Thank you David ...Thank you Ted for the shadowy answers (actually quite
> bright really ) to my silly question.....David you said it has been done
> before?...In fiction....do you know by whom and when..or title?

Sorry, I can't help you there. I know the idea has been used in SF 
before, but by whom and what book, I couldn't tell you. Books, since I 
daresay it's been done more than once. Ted might have an idea. Ted???

As far as real life goes, it is one of the possible fixes touted for the 
greenhouse effect. Of course in this case it would not be blocking all 
the sunlight reaching the earth so it would be smaller ... and I've not 
heard of the greenhouse sunshade being placed in the L1 position, but 
it's really the only spot they could put it.

cheers,
David


> Jeff
> 
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 1:55 PM, Marayong <dragon at roots-boots.net> wrote:
> 
>> Jeff Lynch wrote:
>>
>>> Ted David......need science help again.
>>> Question is ....How far out would a huge sheet of something have to be
>>> form
>>> the Earth....(in space I mean) in order to block out sunlight dropping on
>>> (lighting on) the Earth........????
>>> Have a silly idea...may have been done in fiction before.if it has I
>>> reckon
>>> that you (Ted) will know of iot.
>>> Jeff (again)
>>>
>> It has been done before.
>>
>> There's not a simple answer to that question. If the sheet is not far from
>> the Earth then the sheet would need to about as large as the Earth ... a
>> disk a little shy of 13,000km across.
>>
>> Of course, the closer the sheet is to the sun, the larger it would need to
>> be - the sun s a LOT larger than the Earth so as far as the geometry goes
>> the Earth can be considered a point ... so the smallest size the disk would
>> be would be when it's right next to the Earth.
>>
>> Since the sheet would not be close enuf that it would be essentially
>> touching the Earth (ie it would be in space), it would likely have to be
>> larger than 15,000km. Putting it between the Earth & the moon would cause
>> several issues, mainly it would not be stable thanks to the gravity of the
>> Earth & the Moon and also you'd have to watch out that the Moon didn't crash
>> into it .. also that close and it would have to orbit .. so instead of a
>> disk you'd need to englobe the entire earth.
>>
>> Actually, the only place you could put it would be in one of the Lagrangian
>> points, specifically the L1 point since it is the only one between the Earth
>> & the Sun, approx. 1.5 million km's in from the Earth. The distance from the
>> Earth to the Sun varies from 146 to 152 million km's.
>>
>> Using some back of the envelope calculations and the diameter of the Earth,
>> the sun and the distance between the two, you would need a disk 27,000km
>> diameter at the L1 point to completely block all sunlight from reaching the
>> earth.
>>
>> The next issue would be how much sunlight you want to block ... some of it,
>> most of it or all of it. Even some of it could have a drastic effect,
>> eventually dropping the maximum surface temp to below zero. Cutting all of
>> it would drop the surface temperature to over 200C below zero. It would
>> never reach as cold as Pluto since the Earth is geologically active and
>> generates it's own heat.
>>
>> A smaller than 27,000km diam disk at the L1 would cut some but not all of
>> the sunlight .. but enuf to drop the whole Earth to below freezing.
>>
>> The disk would not actually have to be made of a tough material .. even a
>> gas would do the job, tho' it would not last long before the solar wind
>> disperses it. Even at the L1 point, a disk 27,000km across would need to be
>> anchored in place (thrusters or the like). Since it would be in a
>> microgravity situation, the strength of the material is not really
>> important.
>>
>> But ... to answer your question ... you'd need a 27,000km wide disk placed
>> about 1.5 million km in from the Earth (ie: on a line between the Earth &
>> the Sun).
>>
>> cheers,
>> David
>> --
>> Line dancing, Genealogy, Travel, Photography, Local history & more!
>>     http://roots-boots.net     mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net
>> The greatest tragedy that could overcome a country would be for it
>>  to fight a successful war in defence of liberty and to lose its
>>          own liberty in the process" - Robert Menzies
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>  List mailing list
>> List at tolharndor.org
>> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> List mailing list
> List at tolharndor.org
> http://tolharndor.org/mailman/listinfo/list_tolharndor.org
> 

-- 
Line dancing, Genealogy, Travel, Photography, Local history & more!
      http://roots-boots.net     mailto:dragon at roots-boots.net
The greatest tragedy that could overcome a country would be for it
  to fight a successful war in defence of liberty and to lose its
           own liberty in the process" - Robert Menzies


From mlk at activ8.net.au  Sun Jul 26 18:39:30 2009
From: mlk at activ8.net.au (Michael Kennedy)
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 18:39:30 +1000
Subject: [TolHarndor] 2010 Tolkien Seminar: comments
In-Reply-To: <556770.13626.qm@web110208.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1855913603044087B691F659CAB893B4@Michael>

Ted, as always, expertly done! It did trouble me a little that it was longer
than a single page, but I need worry no longer. If everyone else is happy I
will submit this as is.   

> -----Original Message-----
> From: list-bounces at tolharndor.org [mailto:list-
> bounces at tolharndor.org] On Behalf Of Edwin Scribner
> Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2009 4:30 PM
> To: Tol Harndor - Australian Tolkien Society
> Subject: Re: [TolHarndor] 2010 Tolkien Seminar: comments
> 
> Hi Michael. That looks pretty good, but I think that it may be
> advantageous to fit it on one page. I've attempted to do that
> and have attached the draft. I've also made a few very minor
> alterations which you may like to consider. Others please
> comment as appropriate.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Ted
> 
> --- On Sun, 26/7/09, Michael Kennedy <mlk at activ8.net.au> wrote:
> 
> Thanks Ted for the suggestions. I've adopted most of them in
> one form or
> another but take a look at the latest draft and tell me if you
> think it
> needs anything else.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________________________
> _____________________
> Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
> Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail




From krenon at y7mail.com  Sun Jul 26 19:40:14 2009
From: krenon at y7mail.com (Edwin Scribner)
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 02:40:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TolHarndor] Tolkien Seminar (Call for Papers)
In-Reply-To: <4A6C087C.6090407@roots-boots.net>
Message-ID: <406972.93386.qm@web110214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

The short answer is no. It does recall to mind the stories concerning solar sails, and of course the speculation by Freeman Dyson that a civilisation will eventually need all the energy eminating from its parent sun (about 3 x 10^26 watts in our case). This latter led to the idea of a "Dyson sphere" which was modified by Larry Niven into the "Ringworld".

However it is an idea that may well have been used, and it's a tall order to canvas every sf story ever written to ensure it hasn't been used. In any case, if you use it in a new way it's certainly not plagiarism.

--- On Sun, 26/7/09, Marayong <dragon at roots-boots.net> wrote:

Jeff Lynch wrote:
> Thank you David ...Thank you Ted for the shadowy answers (actually quite
> bright really ) to my silly question.....David you said it has been done
> before?...In fiction....do you know by whom and when..or title?

Sorry, I can't help you there. I know the idea has been used in SF 
before, but by whom and what book, I couldn't tell you. Books, since I 
daresay it's been done more than once. Ted might have an idea. Ted???

As far as real life goes, it is one of the possible fixes touted for the 
greenhouse effect. Of course in this case it would not be blocking all 
the sunlight reaching the earth so it would be smaller ... and I've not 
heard of the greenhouse sunshade being placed in the L1 position, but 
it's really the only spot they could put it.





      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.
Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail